Pikes too weak for their cost?

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Spain MaxH
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Pikes too weak for their cost?

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Post by MaxH »

Considering pikes have almost the same resource/sec cost as musketeers, they seem pretty weak even against cavalry. Are they considered balanced?
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India Challenger_Marco
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Re: Pikes too weak for their cost?

Post by Challenger_Marco »

??
:nwc:
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India Challenger_Marco
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Re: Pikes too weak for their cost?

Post by Challenger_Marco »

@MaxH how dare you underestimate pikis ,piki piki ez winni @Aizamk explain to this guy how it's done.
:nwc:
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Re: Pikes too weak for their cost?

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Post by Aizamk »

speedy spammable super powerful piki
oranges.
France Le Hussard sur le toit
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Re: Pikes too weak for their cost?

Post by Le Hussard sur le toit »

They are cheap, provide a lot of siege and combined well with xbows due to their easy macro. So not a great unit but one that is really useful in many situation and thus does not need to be buffed.
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European Union Scroogie
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Re: Pikes too weak for their cost?

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Post by Scroogie »

Piki should have extra melee range like meteors!
Me being slightly ahead vs H2O: Image
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France ǝɯɐuɹǝsn
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Re: Pikes too weak for their cost?

Post by ǝɯɐuɹǝsn »

pike are 80 ress musk are 100, pikes got a nice speed, better siege attack than musk, better against cav (not only because of the damage but because of the speed, they are faster than the cav when it get hand-hit if i'm not wrong)
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Re: Pikes too weak for their cost?

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Post by Le Hussard sur le toit »

Scroogie wrote:Piki should have extra melee range like meteors!
All units with a pike/halbard should have +1 range.
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Re: Pikes too weak for their cost?

Post by Squamiger »

rods should -1 range because of their tiny swords then
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Tokelau jesus3
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Re: Pikes too weak for their cost?

Post by jesus3 »

Thank you for this thread and therefore reminding us of the greatness of piki. You did it in a smart way and I'm sure this fully reflects your intentions

:flowers: :flowers: :flowers:
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Re: Pikes too weak for their cost?

Post by helln00 »

Le Hussard sur le toit wrote:
Scroogie wrote:Piki should have extra melee range like meteors!
All units with a pike/halbard should have +1 range.
Does this mean changdao gets a weird +0.5 range due to being a rod/halb hybrid?
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Canada Mitoe
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Re: Pikes too weak for their cost?

Post by Mitoe »

The extra speed compared to a musketeer is pretty good, and cover mode is good utility too.
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United States of America _H2O
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Re: Pikes too weak for their cost?

Post by _H2O »

Speed and siege per cost.
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Italy Garja
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Re: Pikes too weak for their cost?

Post by Garja »

Scroogie wrote:Piki should have extra melee range like meteors!
Pretty sure the spear animation does provide a little extra range compared to musks.
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Re: Pikes too weak for their cost?

Post by Jets »

Squamiger wrote:rods should -1 range because of their tiny swords then
Rods should be shock infantry because of their tiny swords.
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Latvia harcha
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Re: Pikes too weak for their cost?

Post by harcha »

Garja wrote:
Scroogie wrote:Piki should have extra melee range like meteors!
Pretty sure the spear animation does provide a little extra range compared to musks.
It's not that it provides range, it's just so much better than the musketeer animation.
POC wrote:Also I most likely know a whole lot more than you.
POC wrote:Also as an objective third party, and near 100% accuracy of giving correct information, I would say my opinions are more reliable than yours.
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Re: Pikes too weak for their cost?

Post by Le Hussard sur le toit »

helln00 wrote:
Le Hussard sur le toit wrote:
Scroogie wrote:Piki should have extra melee range like meteors!
All units with a pike/halbard should have +1 range.
Does this mean changdao gets a weird +0.5 range due to being a rod/halb hybrid?
Do changdao have lances ? No, they have swords. Swords are shorter than lances [citation needed] so they should have a shorter range.
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Latvia harcha
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Re: Pikes too weak for their cost?

Post by harcha »

If you're gonna buff pikes, changs definitely don't need any buffs. But I really don't think pikes need buffs at all. Aiz is already OP.
POC wrote:Also I most likely know a whole lot more than you.
POC wrote:Also as an objective third party, and near 100% accuracy of giving correct information, I would say my opinions are more reliable than yours.
Vietnam duckzilla
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Re: Pikes too weak for their cost?

Post by duckzilla »

Did pikeboom. Lost game. Piki weak, plz buff
Whatever is written above: this is no financial advice.

Beati pauperes spiritu.
Spain MaxH
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Re: Pikes too weak for their cost?

Post by MaxH »

jesus3 wrote:Thank you for this thread and therefore reminding us of the greatness of piki. You did it in a smart way and I'm sure this fully reflects your intentions

:flowers: :flowers: :flowers:
Not sure what you mean. I didn't have an ulterior motive when I created this thread. It just seemed that they were weak based on their stats and cost. Now I know they clearly aren't.
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Re: Pikes too weak for their cost?

Post by helln00 »

Le Hussard sur le toit wrote:
helln00 wrote:
Show hidden quotes
Does this mean changdao gets a weird +0.5 range due to being a rod/halb hybrid?
Do changdao have lances ? No, they have swords. Swords are shorter than lances [citation needed] so they should have a shorter range.
its about the length of a zweihander, so either give changdaos aoe damage or give doppel range or do both
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Re: Pikes too weak for their cost?

Post by Jets »

Yeah pikes are decent but they get a huge amount of techs available from the native tps as well as crossbows do. It's just not worth the effort tho.

Most of them revolve around melee atk, siege atk, archer atk, sadly there isn't enough maps with Mayas/Mapuches on It. Mayas give %20 HP to HI and Mapuches a 50% siege buff.
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Tokelau jesus3
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Re: Pikes too weak for their cost?

Post by jesus3 »

MaxH wrote:
jesus3 wrote:Thank you for this thread and therefore reminding us of the greatness of piki. You did it in a smart way and I'm sure this fully reflects your intentions

:flowers: :flowers: :flowers:
Not sure what you mean. I didn't have an ulterior motive when I created this thread. It just seemed that they were weak based on their stats and cost. Now I know they clearly aren't.
Well, as you know now, Pikes are actually pretty good for their cost. I was joking around a little since we had many complaints about random units over past weeks, Piki was just the icing on the cake :P
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Re: Pikes too weak for their cost?

Post by Astaroth »

Pikes are a bit weak compared to other units, but it fits their role in the game overall.

In terms of the overall game design, "archaic" units like xbows and pikes are mostly supposed to be phased out after age2 (with a few exceptions ofc). This also makes sense historically (I know the game is not really accurate historically, but it's still a good step).

In terms of the role pikes have in the different civs' rosters, their strength is adequate. All civs that can train pikes either only use them as a stop-gap for age3 (these civs are more oriented towards the fortress age), such as Germany and Dutch, and/or have a musketeer alternative (Fre, Brit etc.).

Overall, pikes have a relatively niche role, but can be situationally useful for siege (also vs. Japan), as part of a xbow or lbow/pike comp or later on as an alternative to a plantation transition. Aside from that, they are not supposed to be a one-purpose unit that makes up the bulk of your army.
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Re: Pikes too weak for their cost?

Post by Le Hussard sur le toit »

Basically all civs with pikes train them regularly (not in every game every MU but in a significant number of them). This is a much better state in the meta than halbs for example.
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