The level of play is much higher now than in 2005-2010

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Canada Mitoe
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Re: The level of play is much higher now than in 2005-2010

Post by Mitoe »

It's worse than 2 unupgraded vills, IIRC.
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Re: The level of play is much higher now than in 2005-2010

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

Ye it was 1.25f/s (it got buffed on DE), so it's not even 2 unupgraded vills. 2.5 vill food trickle would be really good in some situations.
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Re: The level of play is much higher now than in 2005-2010

Post by Squamiger »

One thing I remember seeing from back in the day was a video of Parfait explaining a game where he is playing as Germans and hes microing xbows in his opponents base and generally winning, and then you glance at his base and see that he's got all his vills on berries. I wish I could find it. Was it just that RE maps were that bad, that people resorted to berries more often in mid-colonial? Or was game knowledge that low back in the day that even pros didn't quite figure out that hunting > berries lol
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Re: The level of play is much higher now than in 2005-2010

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

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Re: The level of play is much higher now than in 2005-2010

Post by Mitoe »

He just didn't herd at all I guess, and then didn't want to sacrifice unit production to walk to the hunt. Not the best macro in the world, for sure :P
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Post by Guigs »

sending 5 uhlans vs musk huss Kreygasm
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Re: The level of play is much higher now than in 2005-2010

Post by Astaroth »

Squamiger wrote:One thing I remember seeing from back in the day was a video of Parfait explaining a game where he is playing as Germans and hes microing xbows in his opponents base and generally winning, and then you glance at his base and see that he's got all his vills on berries. I wish I could find it. Was it just that RE maps were that bad, that people resorted to berries more often in mid-colonial? Or was game knowledge that low back in the day that even pros didn't quite figure out that hunting > berries lol
People knew that of course, it was common knowledge. I haven't watched the game, but I assume he was either afraid of losing vills to raids or it was just a matter of sending vills randomly to berries bc lack of scouting, lack of time due to microing units etc. But in any case it shows how people nowadays are more conscious to optimise their macro/herding/sending vills to hunts, even during fights.
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Re: The level of play is much higher now than in 2005-2010

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Post by Zutazuta »

The lads from the old days might appreciate this bygone relic of the past. It's always 9:55 somewhere!
agesanc_klok_1.jpg
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Re: The level of play is much higher now than in 2005-2010

Post by RefluxSemantic »

Garja wrote:I mean I've seen it more than one time. It's basically 2.5 unupgraded vills iirc (maybe less cause it's food trickle?). It just never got the status of being the best option.
1.5 food per second. It's worse than shipping 3 vills and just putting them on berries.
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Re: The level of play is much higher now than in 2005-2010

Post by Garja »

Squamiger wrote:One thing I remember seeing from back in the day was a video of Parfait explaining a game where he is playing as Germans and hes microing xbows in his opponents base and generally winning, and then you glance at his base and see that he's got all his vills on berries. I wish I could find it. Was it just that RE maps were that bad, that people resorted to berries more often in mid-colonial? Or was game knowledge that low back in the day that even pros didn't quite figure out that hunting > berries lol
The extra income from hunting is often overrated anyway. Sometimes players send vills across the map for a good 30 seconds idle time just to claim the last hunt when they could just send them to berries in base with like 10 seconds walking time.
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Re: The level of play is much higher now than in 2005-2010

Post by RefluxSemantic »

[Armag] diarouga wrote:
Shoutout to @aaryngend for being a VOD hoarder
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Re: The level of play is much higher now than in 2005-2010

Post by Aykin Haraka »

why would you even send food trickle when you have CM
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Re: The level of play is much higher now than in 2005-2010

Post by N3O_Joe »

RefluxSemantic wrote:
[Armag] diarouga wrote:
Shoutout to @aaryngend for being a VOD hoarder

Sorry for the bad quality for most of them, I used to watch them on my iPod and they are the only copy's left we could find.
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Re: The level of play is much higher now than in 2005-2010

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Post by harcha »

@N3O_Joe the alternative is not having these vids, so it's always good that you uploaded them even if the quality is low
POC wrote:Also I most likely know a whole lot more than you.
POC wrote:Also as an objective third party, and near 100% accuracy of giving correct information, I would say my opinions are more reliable than yours.
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Re: The level of play is much higher now than in 2005-2010

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Post by nightscr3am »

whoever said build orders and timings are the main difference between now and then hit the nail on the head I think.

I always have two thoughts on this which is watching WCG and thinking and knowing grunt is the better player but ryan is winning because of his thousands of hamachi bo runs and samwise coming from pr nothing in early TAD to top with thousands of fan patch games.
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Re: The level of play is much higher now than in 2005-2010

Post by RefluxSemantic »

harcha wrote:@N3O_Joe the alternative is not having these vids, so it's always good that you uploaded them even if the quality is low
Its such an awesome source of aoe3 history tbh. Dont even care about the quality.
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Re: The level of play is much higher now than in 2005-2010

Post by aaryngend »

N3O_Joe wrote:
RefluxSemantic wrote:
[Armag] diarouga wrote:
Shoutout to @aaryngend for being a VOD hoarder
Sorry for the bad quality for most of them, I used to watch them on my iPod and they are the only copy's left we could find.
Not really, only a handful of them got converted through your Ipod (I counted them and the number is 5). The rest of them are available in their original quality that you get when people first uploaded them (bar youtube "optimizations" that every video receives when uploaded to Youtube).
I guess it just seems that way to you because nowadays, quality of VODs across the board is 10x better by default :uglylol:
RefluxSemantic wrote:Shoutout to @aaryngend for being a VOD hoarder
Thanks Jerom :!:
nightscr3am wrote:whoever said build orders and timings are the main difference between now and then hit the nail on the head I think.

I always have two thoughts on this which is watching WCG and thinking and knowing grunt is the better player but ryan is winning because of his thousands of hamachi bo runs and samwise coming from pr nothing in early TAD to top with thousands of fan patch games.
It's amazing how far Grunt got without practicing that much and not even finding out what the best build was before the tourney. He saw H2O's style of play, decided it was far superior and copied it in a matter of minutes and hours.
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Re: The level of play is much higher now than in 2005-2010

Post by Kaiserklein »

Watching that siberia game is kinda painful haha. Like he's got the mechanics, but in terms of strat and knowledge it's a disaster from the very start where he doesn't use his 100g crate for a market, yet wastes time taking that 45g treasure in his base
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Re: The level of play is much higher now than in 2005-2010

Post by RefluxSemantic »

I always find old pro vs new pro discussions so silly. People are people, they will generally have the same skill level and skill distribution. The only difference is that the games get figured out a bit more, so the strategies do become better and better. But pretending that new pros are actually better games is like pretending Im a far better scientists than the scientists in the middle ages just because I get to make use of the collective knowledge of the science community. The average science skills might have increased though, because the teaching methods and availability of knowledge increased (which seems to apply directly to aoe3 too). End of discussion imo, there is just nothing interesting left to say.
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Re: The level of play is much higher now than in 2005-2010

Post by Challenger_Marco »

I will try to find old videos and edit this post



N30's clan YT quality is better:


pkclan.net video quality is best ,rec from 2006:
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Re: The level of play is much higher now than in 2005-2010

Post by Hazza54321 »

Well the skill level is better now because theres more content on how to get better and the game has been more figured out. Shit like the pull trick or how to micro has been seen on streams and players try to mimic it
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Re: The level of play is much higher now than in 2005-2010

Post by Le Hussard sur le toit »

RefluxSemantic wrote:I always find old pro vs new pro discussions so silly. People are people, they will generally have the same skill level and skill distribution. The only difference is that the games get figured out a bit more, so the strategies do become better and better. But pretending that new pros are actually better games is like pretending Im a far better scientists than the scientists in the middle ages just because I get to make use of the collective knowledge of the science community. The average science skills might have increased though, because the teaching methods and availability of knowledge increased (which seems to apply directly to aoe3 too). End of discussion imo, there is just nothing interesting left to say.
It's a bit more complicated than that because in science at least we have become much better at finding top talents and actually turning them into scientists (while before the 18th century the only way to get into science would have been to be rich and doing science in your spare time).
As the population increase, the tail of the gaussian distribution (of skills or whatever else) becomes longer.
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Re: The level of play is much higher now than in 2005-2010

Post by Riotcoke »

Just watching that PK video you can see how poor the build orders were from that time with the lack of knowledge etc. Grunt going 700c 3 huss as otto for example and the french player aging to age 3 with skirms and shipping a fort first, it's like watching pr20 build orders.
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Re: The level of play is much higher now than in 2005-2010

Post by Challenger_Marco »

grunt lost 2 culvs to 2 falcs he doesn't know the modern micro of kiting with it moving it back once you shoot ,Floko would destory him lol.
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Re: The level of play is much higher now than in 2005-2010

Post by n0el »

You have to keep in mind the balance was different as well, aging to 3 with units was faster than it is now, so fast age wasn't as good. The TP meta wasn't a thing because they were 250 W, many units didn't have multipliers or had other broken stats.
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