The level of play is much higher now than in 2005-2010

[n0el]

Well the skill level is better now because theres more content on how to get better and the game has been more figured out. Shit like the pull trick or how to micro has been seen on streams and players try to mimic it

This is a huge factor. When grunt was dominating the ladder, there were 3-4 replays ever of his games. Grunt replays were like gold because it was the only way you could learn from the best player. Nowadays you can turn on twitch and watch Haitch crushing kids out there and hope to be as good as him some day.

[InfernoXtreme]

You can't compare it like that. Meta has changed completely as you have already discussed (Age 2 rush in 1v1 and teamgames,....).

The top players from the past usually played the game for a maximum of 2-3 years.
Today the majority of the top players have been with the game for many, many years or have enough experience from other games in advance that affect their skill level.

The comparison of this thread can be compared to competitive sport. A soccer player who played in the top 10 in the 90s would have difficulties against the young players today. His training or his possibilities were completely different in the past than they are today in terms of skill, technical possibilities, understanding of the game and so on.

I played many games in 2008 with flooky, starksy and co. I also thought that I could get back up there faster, but just understanding the game and making decisions in the game makes it difficult for me.

I used to play high elo with a tube monitor and a 256k modem and watched recorded games and wrote down BO´s and trained. I had never played a competitive game before. Nowadays its a bit different

All in all, I think that the top players from the past were really good for the conditions at the time. Just like today's top players have really good talents.

[SoldieR]

Even if you wanted to learn from recs back then, a lot of people wouldn't allow you to rec in lobby and qs ws 50/50 if it rec if you selected rec.

[Riotcoke]

From just those recs it seems that higher level play was artillery focused more than it is now, was this the case in the early days? @n0el @SoldieR

[InfernoXtreme]

From just those recs it seems that higher level play was artillery focused more than it is now, was this the case in the early days? @n0el @SoldieR

no, today its more artillery focused

[SoldieR]

I think only Dutch would make lots of falcs. Also ger had 2 falc shipment and 20 range ww so you would see more of that and hiding falcs under ww

[Zutazuta]

Pretty much everyone falc raided back in 2004. I think there was a time when a guy named SouljA would spam as many as 10 falcs at a time and raid.

[chris1089]

Pretty much everyone falc raided back in 2004. I think there was a time when a guy named SouljA would spam as many as 10 falcs at a time and raid.

Meta has changed now. Callen raids with horse artillery.

[harcha]

callen is missing in action tbh

[n0el]

is he?

[harcha]

i'm still looking out of the window every time a truck honks, but the vitamins are nowhere to be seen. he scammed me and he scammed all of us

[DoctorSulla]

Also ger had 2 falc shipment

Did they? I don't remember that.

[SoldieR]

Ya, it was very important in mirrors to win the falc fight to then deal with jaegers and skirm shipments, tho you'd hardly send skirm since they didnt have bonus vs ww

[Suzido]

Clearly, everything relating to the optimal way of playing the game, ie (meta-)strategies, timings, tricks, mechanics, general in-depth game knowledge etc etc will have evolved to a vastly greater level by now. I played from 2005 and just got back after many years of hiatus, noticing how the game is played at a much more advanced level.

However - that is not to say that the players back in the day are less ”skilled” than they are today. I would think it is rather the opposite. It is just a numbers game. If there were, say, 100x more people playing the game back in the day, you are just more likely to have a larger number of skilled (or rather talented) players than today. It is like football where you have Messi, vs foosball, where you have (?)

Sam should be a good indicator, even if he got the insane skills he has today a few years after release. This should be a general rule, and there are obvious exceptions, e.g. hazza clearly. And countering my logic is also the fact that the people who stay are those that may be most talented, or at least most engaged.

[princeofkabul]

Yeah you always need to keep in mind todays top/high lvl players have vastly greater experience about the game. Just thinking off Im like +10 years in by now...

Some of my strats are from 2013 to 2015 though.

[spadel]

Just watching that PK video you can see how poor the build orders were from that time with the lack of knowledge etc. Grunt going 700c 3 huss as otto for example and the french player aging to age 3 with skirms and shipping a fort first, it's like watching pr20 build orders.

You have to keep in mind, that this was a vanilla game. So the game you see here was actually played about 1 year after aoe3 was released. I mean think about it, even the last WCG was only about 3 years after aoe3 was released. It is incredible how good some people were, considering how few games they have played compared to today's top players.

Ah and another thing I want to point out is, that back then all home cities started with level 0. So it took quite a lot of time to unlock cards and learn about the full potential of civs and build orders.

[JKProwler]

In a game where game knowledge is at least 60% required, today's players are better because of how long the game has been around now and how much easier it is to access knowledge

[MCJim]

So the average level gets better the longer the game lasts. Makes me wonder if you can ever reach a maximum skill level in this game. After many, many years. A certain player you just can't beat.

[LazarosVas]

So the average level gets better the longer the game lasts. Makes me wonder if you can ever reach a maximum skill level in this game. After many, many years. A certain player you just can't beat.

Basically Haitch 2021, he only had 1 tourney loss and that was on a BO3.

He is basically unbeatable in any BO5+ Matchup.

Ohh and Kaiser with new laptop is up there.

[Garja]

well tbh 2021 must be the least competitive year ever for aoe3

[BrookG]

Recently there have been 3 main events to affect ESOC and as such its player pool: the LAN, the release of DE and the release of AoE4. I don't know whether the numbers will contrast this claim, after LAN a jump was probably observed, but between DE and AoE4 interest has declined. Also, there have been few players to maintain the level of competitiveness, due to real life catching up, finishing studies and starting jobs, too much drama draining them etc. Something similar happened with the community's staff resources, thus less competitive settings were organised (tournaments, events and so on). As a closing clause I will say the same argument that goes over and over in those discussions, it's hard to compare the players' skills from different eras, due to different balance status or amount of tournaments.

[scarm]

So what you are saying is we are all getting quite old by now

[I_HaRRiiSoN_I]

Is MC Jim just trolling through loads of ancient posts??

[BrookG]

So what you are saying is we are all getting quite old by now

Yes, and the nostalgia factor affects less and less the newer players

[ǝɯɐuɹǝsn]

just wanna say : aoe 3 legacy forever