Age of Empires III: Definitive Edition — Update 20322

[princeofcarthage]

In RE Japan often start with 3 food 3 wood/2 wood 1 coin, and they're still a decent civ. Now they have 4 food 3 wood 1 coin start in every game, and you're still complaining?

That is not exactly a deccan start but still abundant resource start which I mentioned would be a good thing even if its fixed.

certain specific starts unless ofcourse you have abundant start like deccan.

[kevinitalien]

Other than that swe change is negligible, I dont understand why they dont just decrease blueberry gathering rates

Aztec changes are big, combined with the buff they received in age 1 already, they can be quite scary now.

Dutch has been lowkey high tier before, and is just getting stronger and stronger. There is a reason Rapha and Soldier (and others) are playing 100% Dutch, and the reason is certainly not that it's a bottom or mid tier civ

I agree, the dutch with this change can just go to 14 vills (0.72c/s btw without placer mine ofc) at all the games, I did the test with a treasure of only 20 coin and I only had 5 sec of idle time, suddenly we have an age up dutch which is 4 min max age 2, before 4 min with a food treasure or coin treasure which is just too strong

the dutch is not a mid tier civ for me but gradually becomes a top civ by dint of receiving unijustify and not deserved buffs

[lemmings121]

for real, who is the "balance team" ? is there any top played with a NDA working with them, or the balance team is just a bunch of aoe2 players looking at a excel sheet of winrates?

[[Armag] diarouga]

for real, who is the "balance team" ? is there any top played with a NDA working with them, or the balance team is just a bunch of aoe2 players looking at a excel sheet of winrates?

Probably a bunch of clueless people. If there are top players involved, then their opinion surely isn't listented.

[gibson]

Not really sure why people are surprised, it’s been clear from the start the emphasis for this game was going to be on casual play. Anyway it’s not like these patches are worse than a lot of EP iterations, and come out faster.

[harcha]

It would be a completely misguided change for casual people, because they are not gonna feel a 5% coin gather rate increase.

[Kaiserklein]

I agree, the dutch with this change can just go to 14 vills (0.72c/s btw without placer mine ofc) at all the games, I did the test with a treasure of only 20 coin and I only had 5 sec of idle time, suddenly we have an age up dutch which is 4 min max age 2, before 4 min with a food treasure or coin treasure which is just too strong

the dutch is not a mid tier civ for me but gradually becomes a top civ by dint of receiving unijustify and not deserved buffs

Dutch was basically always able to go for a 14v age up with little idle time. It was just never good lol, which is why no one did it. Sure you click up earlier, but you just get your bank up later, and struggle to get the 100g in early colo to queue your first vil. Often don't have a shipment ready either in colo because the bank isn't up. At the end of the day you'd just have less resources and slightly less vils (because of idle time), without really getting any advantage from the earlier age up.
14 is only good if you get quite a few treasures, and that was always the case. (except when they had both coin AND wood crates at start, in early DE days)
Keep in mind that the 5% buff means you save roughly 12g in age 1, if you mine the whole 300g you need for vils. If you go 14 and mine the whole 200g, it's roughly 8g only. Not sure how that's relevant tbh. You could get that 10 extra gold from a treasure before, and 14v would suddenly become broken?

If anything it's an actual buff vs e.g russia or aztecs, if you stay on 2-3 banks for a while and have like 8-10v on coin. In that situation dutch gains almost half a vil.

[kevinitalien]

I agree, the dutch with this change can just go to 14 vills (0.72c/s btw without placer mine ofc) at all the games, I did the test with a treasure of only 20 coin and I only had 5 sec of idle time, suddenly we have an age up dutch which is 4 min max age 2, before 4 min with a food treasure or coin treasure which is just too strong

the dutch is not a mid tier civ for me but gradually becomes a top civ by dint of receiving unijustify and not deserved buffs

Dutch was basically always able to go for a 14v age up with little idle time. It was just never good lol, which is why no one did it. Sure you click up earlier, but you just get your bank up later, and struggle to get the 100g in early colo to queue your first vil. Often don't have a shipment ready either in colo because the bank isn't up. At the end of the day you'd just have less resources and slightly less vils (because of idle time), without really getting any advantage from the earlier age up.
14 is only good if you get quite a few treasures, and that was always the case. (except when they had both coin AND wood crates at start, in early DE days)
Keep in mind that the 5% buff means you save roughly 12g in age 1, if you mine the whole 300g you need for vils. If you go 14 and mine the whole 200g, it's roughly 8g only. Not sure how that's relevant tbh. You could get that 10 extra gold from a treasure before, and 14v would suddenly become broken?

If anything it's an actual buff vs e.g russia or aztecs, if you stay on 2-3 banks for a while and have like 8-10v on coin. In that situation dutch gains almost half a vil.

I mean that its confirms my point of view in fact, in any case you collect the gold faster, so your 100 gold for the colonial is faster to collect + the gold you save at age 1, all those seconds that you win accumulates and this civ gets faster and faster, all accumulating makes this too strong for me

and if, as you said, it is felt against civs like azzy or russia, the accumulated seconds gained + the 1.5 vills that you earn by following your example, why it is not relevant imao

[lemmings121]

It would be a completely misguided change for casual people, because they are not gonna feel a 5% coin gather rate increase.

I think they just look at ladder winrates without much interpretation. Dutch is hard to play for newer players so the civ probably have a terrible total winrate on the ladder so they give them a huge buff, Lakota win a lot in lower tier so -100w seems fair, etc.

also from the patch notes they probably aim to balance more for 3v3 lategame and treaty, as that probably have a larger playerbase then competitive 1v1

[Jets]

Buff for dutch early, but no nerfs on late? Smh rn.

[[Armag] diarouga]

It would be a completely misguided change for casual people, because they are not gonna feel a 5% coin gather rate increase.

I think they just look at ladder winrates without much interpretation. Dutch is hard to play for newer players so the civ probably have a terrible total winrate on the ladder so they give them a huge buff, Lakota win a lot in lower tier so -100w seems fair, etc.

also from the patch notes they probably aim to balance more for 3v3 lategame and treaty, as that probably have a larger playerbase then competitive 1v1

True. They don't seem to make the difference between high level 1v1 stats and global 3v3 stats.

[kevinitalien]

and still I think about it I only speak about the rate of gather of gold but I did not even speak that we could increase the limit of the villagers of 10 with the 2 cards age 1, ok in 1v1 it will be rare but in a team ...

[Joe]

and still I think about it I only speak about the rate of gather of gold but I did not even speak that we could increase the limit of the villagers of 10 with the 2 cards age 1, ok in 1v1 it will be rare but in a team ...

I like the bank card change tbh

[draztik]

I notice that the two maps without tp also have very poor treasures. This is a huge nerf for spain Imo. I will always delete my dog at the begining of the game on these 2 maps. gg ez. these maps are also quite open (if there is no water I consider the map as an open map) and it will be the dreams for players who like to play hide and seek vills. (spain army have no mobilty, cannot raid much ), === big nerf inside.

Yukon was a very good map.

The nerf to Swedish looks quite small but let's see.

I am not convince that dutchs deserve a boost, this civ is easy to play and it should be seriously taken into account ( bot civ who just need to spam 1 or 2 units like suede)

sick

[admiraljsmith]

It would be a completely misguided change for casual people, because they are not gonna feel a 5% coin gather rate increase.

indeed, more like casual players dont mine coin with dutch outside of discovery age. Banks provide enough coin.

[Kaiserklein]

I mean that its confirms my point of view in fact, in any case you collect the gold faster, so your 100 gold for the colonial is faster to collect + the gold you save at age 1, all those seconds that you win accumulates and this civ gets faster and faster, all accumulating makes this too strong for me

No it doesn't, your point was that dutch can just always go 14 now. Like I said, you can do it, but it's just bad.
Now yes of course you save some VS by gathering coin a little bit faster. But again that's just like 10g in age 1, and in early age 2 you don't really have vils on coin if you're booming (which is what happens most games), so the buff is small.

and if, as you said, it is felt against civs like azzy or russia, the accumulated seconds gained + the 1.5 vills that you earn by following your example, why it is not relevant imao

Well if you open bank wagon and have like 8-10 vils on coin, the buff is more relevant, but still only like +0.4 vil. That's not exactly huge. Not sure where you're getting +1.5 vil from.

[88_Baron_Rojo_88]

Aztec changes are quite insane. I mean it looks really fun to play with food/gold units only but not sure that's right.
Brits change ok.
China changes ok.
French cuirasser change ok. The food card change not ok imo. I suspect it's cause of treaty but in supremacy French actually want both the mill cards, especially when 2-3 TC booming cause somehow you're always short of that compared to other civs.
Dutch have been unjustly buffed.
Germans change ok.
Iro changes ok.
Inca changes ok.
India mansbdar change idk, I guess ok.

Exalted Sepoys (V): Increased the attack and hit-point bonus granted to Sepoy units from +50% ▶ +60%.

Random treaty stuff? I don't see a reason for this. Sepoy it's already one of the best units in the game.
Japanese crate change not ok. Undeserved nerf.
Sioux changes not ok imo. 100w for early TP was fair. Siege dance OP but it's like the only siege they have late game. Not sure where the "best team civ" comes from because Sioux are good early and midgame but late game they kinda suck.
Ottoman changes ok.
Portguese change idk. Why even nerf that thing.
Russia changes idk. Blockhouse change seems too good and almost certainly reverted next patch. Opri change probably ok.
Spain change feels a bit unfair. Now the civ has ups for all units.
Swede changes ok.

Map changes very good.

honestly, do you think people are now going to choose Spain in teamgames to make dragoons before Portugal, France, Holland, Sioux, British etc just for a 15% card in fortress age? clearly no. People still playing other civs for that whit more cards and much better eco xD

[yoqpasa]

Can anybody tell me what these icons are? I've seen elephant, tortoise and snail

[ssaa22]

As a Dutch Most, personal opinion, I think it would have been better to buff bank for the Dutch. It will help the Dutch build banks and enter 3ages at a weak timing.

However, this change is not very pointless. Perhaps this change will lead to better play. maybe...

[ssaa22]

Can anybody tell me what these icons are? I've seen elephant, tortoise and snail

It seems that the internet connection between that player and you is not smooth.

[Mr_Bramboy]

Can anybody tell me what these icons are? I've seen elephant, tortoise and snail

Ping, maybe? Since the old 'wifi' icon is gone.

[lemmings121]

something else funny about this patch:

Fixed an error which would prevent the leaderboard from populating more than 200 entries. The full list of player rankings are now available (both in-game and on the website).

and the link leads to a ladder that only show the top200.

[helln00]

Hmm that new aztec skull knight rush is going to be tough for china. potentially 2 skull knights + mace/coyote in base by like 4:40 is fucking scary. How to counter this you guys think? 2 village into a sort of semi FF or age 2 market play

[CR_Joops]

its very interesting how they specifically note that aztec has a high win percentage (???) and spain has one of the lowest. is that just because people who know what they are doing play aztec, while people who are complete noobs pick spain? its funny how its the opposite of what competitive players would rate them

nvm spain is just low in team games, makes sense

It's because Aztec are very strong further down the ladder, where 90% of people play

it might be low lewel players are confused about Aztec units and have no clue what counters them.

Azzy rush also very strong if you don't know/can't counter it imo. Bit of both makes it v hard for casual players.

[Garja]

It's not just the coin gathering boost for Dutch. It'also the other DE changes such as starting crates, halb politician, revolution, etc.