Map pool?

General forum about Age of Empires 3 DE. Please post strategy threads, recorded games, user-created content and tech support threads in their respective forum.
No Flag iamgaming
Musketeer
Posts: 69
Joined: Oct 19, 2020

Map pool?

Post by iamgaming »

Latest patch(update 20322) changed standard map pool of competitive game:

Removed Ozarks
Removed Borneo
Removed Himalayas
Removed Patagonia
Removed Yukon
Added Manchuria
Added Malaysia
Added Gran Chaco
Added Pampas Sierras

Anyone knows the reason why they changed map pool like this? Gran Chaco and Pampas Sierras don’t have trade route and I can’t understand why they added these maps. Removing Borneo is a good change, though.

In addition, why don’t they show full list of standard map pool?
User avatar
India iron_turtle
Skirmisher
Posts: 135
Joined: Jan 25, 2021
ESO: iron_turtle

Re: Map pool?

Post by iron_turtle »

No TP maps are still a competitive map. It will give time for non TP civs to shine, like Russia, India, Aztec.
User avatar
Canada Mitoe
Advanced Theory Craftsman
Posts: 5486
Joined: Aug 23, 2015
ESO: Mitoe
GameRanger ID: 346407

Re: Map pool?

  • Quote

Post by Mitoe »

Don’t forget to build a church for xp on those maps.
Indonesia jumhana
Crossbow
Posts: 15
Joined: Nov 2, 2020

Re: Map pool?

Post by jumhana »

Should I just do tower rush if I play Germany and get a non-TP map? I just read @Mitoe 's guide to Germany and I am thinking that this is the only viable option for non-TP maps.

viewtopic.php?f=29&t=8101
User avatar
Germany Joe
Dragoon
Posts: 260
Joined: Feb 19, 2021

Re: Map pool?

Post by Joe »

im sad they dont removed artic territorys from the map pool. But im happy they removed yukon
Great Britain CR_Joops
Skirmisher
Posts: 124
Joined: Feb 2, 2021
ESO: CR_Joops

Re: Map pool?

Post by CR_Joops »

Mitoe wrote:Don’t forget to build a church for xp on those maps.
Approximately how much XP does a church give compared to a TP? Realise it depends on map probably
No Flag iamgaming
Musketeer
Posts: 69
Joined: Oct 19, 2020

Re: Map pool?

Post by iamgaming »

Who on earth wants to play TP-dependent Civ like Germany, Spain, and Ottomans at no TP maps? I agree that the game needs diversity and maps should have their own characteristics but existence of TP affects the game too much. The game also needs consistency.
No Flag iamgaming
Musketeer
Posts: 69
Joined: Oct 19, 2020

Re: Map pool?

Post by iamgaming »

CR_Joops wrote: Approximately how much XP does a church give compared to a TP? Realise it depends on map probably
Approx. half of TP, a third of TP with stagecoach.

Edit: I tested and noticed that a church provides exp at 50~70% efficiency compared to basic TP.
France Kaiserklein
Pro Player
Posts: 10278
Joined: Jun 6, 2015
Location: Paris
GameRanger ID: 5529322

Re: Map pool?

  • Quote

Post by Kaiserklein »

iamgaming wrote:Who on earth wants to play TP-dependent Civ like Germany, Spain, and Ottomans at no TP maps? I agree that the game needs diversity and maps should have their own characteristics but existence of TP affects the game too much. The game also needs consistency.
Church is about 60% of a good TP, and costs 75% of it. You need to spend vil seconds to build it but meanwhile your explorer can find extra treasures, also the church is safe in your base. It definitely makes some "TP civs" playable on no TP maps. And taking that into account, I think it's safe to say that your average no TP map is easily more standard than, say, yukon or patagonia.
Image
Image
Image
LoOk_tOm wrote:I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..
Australia Kawapasaka
ESOC Pro Team
Posts: 1116
Joined: Jan 25, 2019
Location: Wales (new, south)

Re: Map pool?

Post by Kawapasaka »

The church still isn't available until age 2 though, right? Doesn't that mean a standard 17v Germany will hit age 2 with no shipment ready?
France Kaiserklein
Pro Player
Posts: 10278
Joined: Jun 6, 2015
Location: Paris
GameRanger ID: 5529322

Re: Map pool?

  • Quote

Post by Kaiserklein »

Germany usually does have a shipment upon colo if they killed a few treasure guardians, with the RE xp penalty (same as DE I think?). Sometimes you'll be unlucky and have to wait a few seconds for it, but that's about it. I remember I had this every game on cascade range because there are basically no guardians there.
Also on a TP map, it's not rare that you don't get any xp pass before colo as ger. In which case I guess dropping the church in colo isn't so much worse.
Honestly, regardless of how xp is more valuable for ger, not being able to build a church in age 1 might hurt e.g france more. Because they'd actually be able to drop the church instantly in age 1, while ger has to wait anyway.

But yeah it should probably be available in age 1 anyway.
Image
Image
Image
LoOk_tOm wrote:I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..
User avatar
United States of America dutchdude117
ESOC Community Team
Posts: 228
Joined: Apr 24, 2015
ESO: Dutchdude117
Location: USA California

Re: Map pool?

  • Quote

Post by dutchdude117 »

100% church should be available age 1
User avatar
Canada vividlyplain
Lancer
Posts: 751
Joined: Feb 10, 2019
ESO: vividlyplain

Re: Map pool?

  • Quote

Post by vividlyplain »

iron_turtle wrote:No TP maps are still a competitive map. It will give time for non TP civs to shine, like Russia, India, Aztec.
i generally agree, but the map is quite important to your civ selection so i'd have liked to see them implement a system where you can change your civ once you know the map like aoe2 has

adding more non-tp maps may result in less civ diversity in QS as players choose "safer" options
User avatar
Kiribati princeofcarthage
Retired Contributor
Posts: 8861
Joined: Aug 28, 2015
Location: Milky Way!

Re: Map pool?

Post by princeofcarthage »

Or you can be competent and balance the game so that majority of civs have to and no to options
Fine line to something great is a strange change.
User avatar
Isle of Man UpMySleeves
Dragoon
Posts: 238
Joined: Apr 5, 2017
GameRanger ID: 7309280

Re: Map pool?

Post by UpMySleeves »

To or no to options, that is the question.
Never trust a man in a blue trench coat, never drive a car when you're dead
User avatar
Latvia harcha
Gendarme
Posts: 5136
Joined: Jul 2, 2015
ESO: hatamoto_samurai

Re: Map pool?

Post by harcha »

it's the million dollar question. i hope DE can resolve expediently.

BR,
Harcha
POC wrote:Also I most likely know a whole lot more than you.
POC wrote:Also as an objective third party, and near 100% accuracy of giving correct information, I would say my opinions are more reliable than yours.
France Le Hussard sur le toit
Howdah
Posts: 1149
Joined: Oct 16, 2019
ESO: LeHussardsurletoit

Re: Map pool?

Post by Le Hussard sur le toit »

Just allow to chose your civ after seeing the map.
ESOC : came for the game, stayed for the drama.
User avatar
Brazil lemmings121
Jaeger
Posts: 2673
Joined: Mar 15, 2015
ESO: lemmings121

Re: Map pool?

Post by lemmings121 »

Le Hussard sur le toit wrote:Just allow to chose your civ after seeing the map.
That would just make everyone play india and russia on notp maps, port mirror on water, etc, killing variety.

We already know that balance is and will always be kinda bad in this game, so its better to have some variery in qs, and having few nontp maps there is fine. Ideally every civ is playable in qs, but their strength is a bit random with the map.
Image
France Le Hussard sur le toit
Howdah
Posts: 1149
Joined: Oct 16, 2019
ESO: LeHussardsurletoit

Re: Map pool?

Post by Le Hussard sur le toit »

lemmings121 wrote:
Le Hussard sur le toit wrote:Just allow to chose your civ after seeing the map.
That would just make everyone play india and russia on notp maps, port mirror on water, etc, killing variety.

We already know that balance is and will always be kinda bad in this game, so its better to have some variery in qs, and having few nontp maps there is fine. Ideally every civ is playable in qs, but their strength is a bit random with the map.

That's just not trie. A good no-TP map like Pampa Sierra has at least 8 viable civs (Russia, Brits, Dutch, Aztecs, Sweden, Inca, Japan, India). Almost nobody plays port water and anyway many civs have options to fight a port water boom.

On the other hand getting an auto-loss because you roll Lakota vs Port on Baja California or Otto vs India on Pampa Sierra is just dumb.

There are generaly a lot of viable civs on any given map. There are, however, very few civs that are viable on most qs maps and mus. Not being able to pick up your civ after seing the map means you are stuck with those civs that do well everywhere.
ESOC : came for the game, stayed for the drama.
User avatar
Canada vividlyplain
Lancer
Posts: 751
Joined: Feb 10, 2019
ESO: vividlyplain

Re: Map pool?

Post by vividlyplain »

lemmings121 wrote:
Le Hussard sur le toit wrote:Just allow to chose your civ after seeing the map.
That would just make everyone play india and russia on notp maps, port mirror on water, etc, killing variety.

We already know that balance is and will always be kinda bad in this game, so its better to have some variery in qs, and having few nontp maps there is fine. Ideally every civ is playable in qs, but their strength is a bit random with the map.
I don’t think it would kill variety. You may be right that those could be the most played no tp map civs, but the maps are still going to be selected randomly so tp and no tp maps should both be played on with players being given the voice of changing their civ that they feel is better suited to a certain map.
User avatar
Canada Mitoe
Advanced Theory Craftsman
Posts: 5486
Joined: Aug 23, 2015
ESO: Mitoe
GameRanger ID: 346407

Re: Map pool?

Post by Mitoe »

Kaiserklein wrote:Germany usually does have a shipment upon colo if they killed a few treasure guardians, with the RE xp penalty (same as DE I think?). Sometimes you'll be unlucky and have to wait a few seconds for it, but that's about it. I remember I had this every game on cascade range because there are basically no guardians there.
Also on a TP map, it's not rare that you don't get any xp pass before colo as ger. In which case I guess dropping the church in colo isn't so much worse.
Honestly, regardless of how xp is more valuable for ger, not being able to build a church in age 1 might hurt e.g france more. Because they'd actually be able to drop the church instantly in age 1, while ger has to wait anyway.

But yeah it should probably be available in age 1 anyway.
You wouldn't be concerned about spy rushing enemy explorers?
France Le Hussard sur le toit
Howdah
Posts: 1149
Joined: Oct 16, 2019
ESO: LeHussardsurletoit

Re: Map pool?

Post by Le Hussard sur le toit »

Mitoe wrote:
Kaiserklein wrote:Germany usually does have a shipment upon colo if they killed a few treasure guardians, with the RE xp penalty (same as DE I think?). Sometimes you'll be unlucky and have to wait a few seconds for it, but that's about it. I remember I had this every game on cascade range because there are basically no guardians there.
Also on a TP map, it's not rare that you don't get any xp pass before colo as ger. In which case I guess dropping the church in colo isn't so much worse.
Honestly, regardless of how xp is more valuable for ger, not being able to build a church in age 1 might hurt e.g france more. Because they'd actually be able to drop the church instantly in age 1, while ger has to wait anyway.

But yeah it should probably be available in age 1 anyway.
You wouldn't be concerned about spy rushing enemy explorers?
Just make spies only available in age 2 ? Or increase their training time.
ESOC : came for the game, stayed for the drama.
User avatar
Canada Mitoe
Advanced Theory Craftsman
Posts: 5486
Joined: Aug 23, 2015
ESO: Mitoe
GameRanger ID: 346407

Re: Map pool?

Post by Mitoe »

Le Hussard sur le toit wrote:
Mitoe wrote:
Kaiserklein wrote:Germany usually does have a shipment upon colo if they killed a few treasure guardians, with the RE xp penalty (same as DE I think?). Sometimes you'll be unlucky and have to wait a few seconds for it, but that's about it. I remember I had this every game on cascade range because there are basically no guardians there.
Also on a TP map, it's not rare that you don't get any xp pass before colo as ger. In which case I guess dropping the church in colo isn't so much worse.
Honestly, regardless of how xp is more valuable for ger, not being able to build a church in age 1 might hurt e.g france more. Because they'd actually be able to drop the church instantly in age 1, while ger has to wait anyway.

But yeah it should probably be available in age 1 anyway.
You wouldn't be concerned about spy rushing enemy explorers?
Just make spies only available in age 2 ? Or increase their training time.
They are available only in age 2. I'm mostly thinking about stagecoach builds; spy rush just completely shuts it down sometimes. And if you increase spy train time, then it makes spies less useful at countering mercenaries later in the game I think.
User avatar
Germany Joe
Dragoon
Posts: 260
Joined: Feb 19, 2021

Re: Map pool?

Post by Joe »

Le Hussard sur le toit wrote:
Mitoe wrote:
Kaiserklein wrote:Germany usually does have a shipment upon colo if they killed a few treasure guardians, with the RE xp penalty (same as DE I think?). Sometimes you'll be unlucky and have to wait a few seconds for it, but that's about it. I remember I had this every game on cascade range because there are basically no guardians there.
Also on a TP map, it's not rare that you don't get any xp pass before colo as ger. In which case I guess dropping the church in colo isn't so much worse.
Honestly, regardless of how xp is more valuable for ger, not being able to build a church in age 1 might hurt e.g france more. Because they'd actually be able to drop the church instantly in age 1, while ger has to wait anyway.

But yeah it should probably be available in age 1 anyway.
You wouldn't be concerned about spy rushing enemy explorers?
Just make spies only available in age 2 ? Or increase their training time.
well mosque is possible like that. Church should be too
France Kaiserklein
Pro Player
Posts: 10278
Joined: Jun 6, 2015
Location: Paris
GameRanger ID: 5529322

Re: Map pool?

  • Quote

Post by Kaiserklein »

Mitoe wrote:You wouldn't be concerned about spy rushing enemy explorers?
Like people pointed out, otto already gets their church in discovery, so idk why they'd be the only ones to be able to train spies early. And since spies can only be trained in colo, it's just about the 20 sec building time of the mosque right? Not sure these 20 secs make a difference between "spy rush" being basically unused, and becoming suddenly broken.
Besides, the biggest use of the church would still be on a no TP map, which, well, don't have a TP line. So spy rushing is much less interesting there.

What's spies current training time anyway? 20 secs? It could be nerfed to 30 seconds to prevent that from happening. After all it's a standard training time for infantry units, and spies even cost more than 100 res.
Image
Image
Image
LoOk_tOm wrote:I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests

Which top 10 players do you wish to see listed?

All-time

Active last two weeks

Active last month

Supremacy

Treaty

Official

ESOC Patch

Treaty Patch

1v1 Elo

2v2 Elo

3v3 Elo

Power Rating

Which streams do you wish to see listed?

Twitch

Age of Empires III

Age of Empires IV