Map pool?
Map pool?
Latest patch(update 20322) changed standard map pool of competitive game:
Removed Ozarks
Removed Borneo
Removed Himalayas
Removed Patagonia
Removed Yukon
Added Manchuria
Added Malaysia
Added Gran Chaco
Added Pampas Sierras
Anyone knows the reason why they changed map pool like this? Gran Chaco and Pampas Sierras don’t have trade route and I can’t understand why they added these maps. Removing Borneo is a good change, though.
In addition, why don’t they show full list of standard map pool?
Removed Ozarks
Removed Borneo
Removed Himalayas
Removed Patagonia
Removed Yukon
Added Manchuria
Added Malaysia
Added Gran Chaco
Added Pampas Sierras
Anyone knows the reason why they changed map pool like this? Gran Chaco and Pampas Sierras don’t have trade route and I can’t understand why they added these maps. Removing Borneo is a good change, though.
In addition, why don’t they show full list of standard map pool?
- iron_turtle
- Skirmisher
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Re: Map pool?
No TP maps are still a competitive map. It will give time for non TP civs to shine, like Russia, India, Aztec.
Re: Map pool?
Don’t forget to build a church for xp on those maps.
Re: Map pool?
Should I just do tower rush if I play Germany and get a non-TP map? I just read @Mitoe 's guide to Germany and I am thinking that this is the only viable option for non-TP maps.
viewtopic.php?f=29&t=8101
viewtopic.php?f=29&t=8101
Re: Map pool?
im sad they dont removed artic territorys from the map pool. But im happy they removed yukon
Re: Map pool?
Approximately how much XP does a church give compared to a TP? Realise it depends on map probablyMitoe wrote:Don’t forget to build a church for xp on those maps.
Re: Map pool?
Who on earth wants to play TP-dependent Civ like Germany, Spain, and Ottomans at no TP maps? I agree that the game needs diversity and maps should have their own characteristics but existence of TP affects the game too much. The game also needs consistency.
Re: Map pool?
Approx. half of TP, a third of TP with stagecoach.CR_Joops wrote: Approximately how much XP does a church give compared to a TP? Realise it depends on map probably
Edit: I tested and noticed that a church provides exp at 50~70% efficiency compared to basic TP.
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Re: Map pool?
Church is about 60% of a good TP, and costs 75% of it. You need to spend vil seconds to build it but meanwhile your explorer can find extra treasures, also the church is safe in your base. It definitely makes some "TP civs" playable on no TP maps. And taking that into account, I think it's safe to say that your average no TP map is easily more standard than, say, yukon or patagonia.iamgaming wrote:Who on earth wants to play TP-dependent Civ like Germany, Spain, and Ottomans at no TP maps? I agree that the game needs diversity and maps should have their own characteristics but existence of TP affects the game too much. The game also needs consistency.
LoOk_tOm wrote:I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..
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- ESOC Pro Team
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Re: Map pool?
The church still isn't available until age 2 though, right? Doesn't that mean a standard 17v Germany will hit age 2 with no shipment ready?
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Re: Map pool?
Germany usually does have a shipment upon colo if they killed a few treasure guardians, with the RE xp penalty (same as DE I think?). Sometimes you'll be unlucky and have to wait a few seconds for it, but that's about it. I remember I had this every game on cascade range because there are basically no guardians there.
Also on a TP map, it's not rare that you don't get any xp pass before colo as ger. In which case I guess dropping the church in colo isn't so much worse.
Honestly, regardless of how xp is more valuable for ger, not being able to build a church in age 1 might hurt e.g france more. Because they'd actually be able to drop the church instantly in age 1, while ger has to wait anyway.
But yeah it should probably be available in age 1 anyway.
Also on a TP map, it's not rare that you don't get any xp pass before colo as ger. In which case I guess dropping the church in colo isn't so much worse.
Honestly, regardless of how xp is more valuable for ger, not being able to build a church in age 1 might hurt e.g france more. Because they'd actually be able to drop the church instantly in age 1, while ger has to wait anyway.
But yeah it should probably be available in age 1 anyway.
LoOk_tOm wrote:I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..
- dutchdude117
- ESOC Community Team
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- ESO: Dutchdude117
- Location: USA California
Re: Map pool?
100% church should be available age 1
- vividlyplain
- Lancer
- Posts: 751
- Joined: Feb 10, 2019
- ESO: vividlyplain
Re: Map pool?
i generally agree, but the map is quite important to your civ selection so i'd have liked to see them implement a system where you can change your civ once you know the map like aoe2 hasiron_turtle wrote:No TP maps are still a competitive map. It will give time for non TP civs to shine, like Russia, India, Aztec.
adding more non-tp maps may result in less civ diversity in QS as players choose "safer" options
- princeofcarthage
- Retired Contributor
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Re: Map pool?
Or you can be competent and balance the game so that majority of civs have to and no to options
Fine line to something great is a strange change.
- UpMySleeves
- Dragoon
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Re: Map pool?
To or no to options, that is the question.
Never trust a man in a blue trench coat, never drive a car when you're dead
- harcha
- Gendarme
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- Joined: Jul 2, 2015
- ESO: hatamoto_samurai
Re: Map pool?
it's the million dollar question. i hope DE can resolve expediently.
BR,
Harcha
BR,
Harcha
POC wrote:Also I most likely know a whole lot more than you.
POC wrote:Also as an objective third party, and near 100% accuracy of giving correct information, I would say my opinions are more reliable than yours.
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- Howdah
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Re: Map pool?
Just allow to chose your civ after seeing the map.
ESOC : came for the game, stayed for the drama.
- lemmings121
- Jaeger
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Re: Map pool?
That would just make everyone play india and russia on notp maps, port mirror on water, etc, killing variety.Le Hussard sur le toit wrote:Just allow to chose your civ after seeing the map.
We already know that balance is and will always be kinda bad in this game, so its better to have some variery in qs, and having few nontp maps there is fine. Ideally every civ is playable in qs, but their strength is a bit random with the map.
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- Howdah
- Posts: 1149
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Re: Map pool?
lemmings121 wrote:That would just make everyone play india and russia on notp maps, port mirror on water, etc, killing variety.Le Hussard sur le toit wrote:Just allow to chose your civ after seeing the map.
We already know that balance is and will always be kinda bad in this game, so its better to have some variery in qs, and having few nontp maps there is fine. Ideally every civ is playable in qs, but their strength is a bit random with the map.
That's just not trie. A good no-TP map like Pampa Sierra has at least 8 viable civs (Russia, Brits, Dutch, Aztecs, Sweden, Inca, Japan, India). Almost nobody plays port water and anyway many civs have options to fight a port water boom.
On the other hand getting an auto-loss because you roll Lakota vs Port on Baja California or Otto vs India on Pampa Sierra is just dumb.
There are generaly a lot of viable civs on any given map. There are, however, very few civs that are viable on most qs maps and mus. Not being able to pick up your civ after seing the map means you are stuck with those civs that do well everywhere.
ESOC : came for the game, stayed for the drama.
- vividlyplain
- Lancer
- Posts: 751
- Joined: Feb 10, 2019
- ESO: vividlyplain
Re: Map pool?
I don’t think it would kill variety. You may be right that those could be the most played no tp map civs, but the maps are still going to be selected randomly so tp and no tp maps should both be played on with players being given the voice of changing their civ that they feel is better suited to a certain map.lemmings121 wrote:That would just make everyone play india and russia on notp maps, port mirror on water, etc, killing variety.Le Hussard sur le toit wrote:Just allow to chose your civ after seeing the map.
We already know that balance is and will always be kinda bad in this game, so its better to have some variery in qs, and having few nontp maps there is fine. Ideally every civ is playable in qs, but their strength is a bit random with the map.
Re: Map pool?
You wouldn't be concerned about spy rushing enemy explorers?Kaiserklein wrote:Germany usually does have a shipment upon colo if they killed a few treasure guardians, with the RE xp penalty (same as DE I think?). Sometimes you'll be unlucky and have to wait a few seconds for it, but that's about it. I remember I had this every game on cascade range because there are basically no guardians there.
Also on a TP map, it's not rare that you don't get any xp pass before colo as ger. In which case I guess dropping the church in colo isn't so much worse.
Honestly, regardless of how xp is more valuable for ger, not being able to build a church in age 1 might hurt e.g france more. Because they'd actually be able to drop the church instantly in age 1, while ger has to wait anyway.
But yeah it should probably be available in age 1 anyway.
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- Howdah
- Posts: 1149
- Joined: Oct 16, 2019
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Re: Map pool?
Just make spies only available in age 2 ? Or increase their training time.Mitoe wrote:You wouldn't be concerned about spy rushing enemy explorers?Kaiserklein wrote:Germany usually does have a shipment upon colo if they killed a few treasure guardians, with the RE xp penalty (same as DE I think?). Sometimes you'll be unlucky and have to wait a few seconds for it, but that's about it. I remember I had this every game on cascade range because there are basically no guardians there.
Also on a TP map, it's not rare that you don't get any xp pass before colo as ger. In which case I guess dropping the church in colo isn't so much worse.
Honestly, regardless of how xp is more valuable for ger, not being able to build a church in age 1 might hurt e.g france more. Because they'd actually be able to drop the church instantly in age 1, while ger has to wait anyway.
But yeah it should probably be available in age 1 anyway.
ESOC : came for the game, stayed for the drama.
Re: Map pool?
They are available only in age 2. I'm mostly thinking about stagecoach builds; spy rush just completely shuts it down sometimes. And if you increase spy train time, then it makes spies less useful at countering mercenaries later in the game I think.Le Hussard sur le toit wrote:Just make spies only available in age 2 ? Or increase their training time.Mitoe wrote:You wouldn't be concerned about spy rushing enemy explorers?Kaiserklein wrote:Germany usually does have a shipment upon colo if they killed a few treasure guardians, with the RE xp penalty (same as DE I think?). Sometimes you'll be unlucky and have to wait a few seconds for it, but that's about it. I remember I had this every game on cascade range because there are basically no guardians there.
Also on a TP map, it's not rare that you don't get any xp pass before colo as ger. In which case I guess dropping the church in colo isn't so much worse.
Honestly, regardless of how xp is more valuable for ger, not being able to build a church in age 1 might hurt e.g france more. Because they'd actually be able to drop the church instantly in age 1, while ger has to wait anyway.
But yeah it should probably be available in age 1 anyway.
Re: Map pool?
well mosque is possible like that. Church should be tooLe Hussard sur le toit wrote:Just make spies only available in age 2 ? Or increase their training time.Mitoe wrote:You wouldn't be concerned about spy rushing enemy explorers?Kaiserklein wrote:Germany usually does have a shipment upon colo if they killed a few treasure guardians, with the RE xp penalty (same as DE I think?). Sometimes you'll be unlucky and have to wait a few seconds for it, but that's about it. I remember I had this every game on cascade range because there are basically no guardians there.
Also on a TP map, it's not rare that you don't get any xp pass before colo as ger. In which case I guess dropping the church in colo isn't so much worse.
Honestly, regardless of how xp is more valuable for ger, not being able to build a church in age 1 might hurt e.g france more. Because they'd actually be able to drop the church instantly in age 1, while ger has to wait anyway.
But yeah it should probably be available in age 1 anyway.
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Re: Map pool?
Like people pointed out, otto already gets their church in discovery, so idk why they'd be the only ones to be able to train spies early. And since spies can only be trained in colo, it's just about the 20 sec building time of the mosque right? Not sure these 20 secs make a difference between "spy rush" being basically unused, and becoming suddenly broken.Mitoe wrote:You wouldn't be concerned about spy rushing enemy explorers?
Besides, the biggest use of the church would still be on a no TP map, which, well, don't have a TP line. So spy rushing is much less interesting there.
What's spies current training time anyway? 20 secs? It could be nerfed to 30 seconds to prevent that from happening. After all it's a standard training time for infantry units, and spies even cost more than 100 res.
LoOk_tOm wrote:I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..
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