ESOCommunity

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Damn, that beats my personal best at 2.5 hours.

walls are definitely too weak

This post reminds me of this game

Genuinely don't understand why bastion walls are 5w each.

Ye at this stage of the meta with a decent number of player routinely using lot of walls, it just makes sense to nerf the bastion walls. 10w 5g sound about right.

Balance aside it's always been very ugly from a design POV that late-game meta is covering literally every available square inch of map space in walls. They could just have a build limit like outposts do, make it scale with map or w/e. Low priority aspect of the game right now though so doubt it gets any attention in the foreseeable future. I'd also be fine with pillar deletion getting "fixed" but not a huge deal.

I agree with wall nerfs, it has always felt unfun to play with or against wall spamming, which I think is the main reason it doesn't see more use since walls are very strong

Agreed mr.kawap. Build limit to walls sounds like a good solution.

Build limit would be a great answer. Maybe start it off low in age 2 and increase build limit in later stages of the game.

Nothing compared to Cosuco walls on Mongolia by 40 mins

Well atleast you won @uberjz imagine playing that long to lose because of walls...could have played 3-4 games instead.

I like that this was a game between Russia (coming from north-west) vs. China (coming from south-east) in Siberia. Seems to make sense.

The thing about walling is that it transforms late-game into a kind of trench warfare where melee cavalry becomes far less relevant and anything long-ranged, especially artillery, gets increased importance. Additionally, the level of frustration I feel when I encounter an opponent, who walls off a significant part of the map with dozens of layers, might be similar to what ww1 generals felt who expected fast and deciding battles before christmas. All in all, this design might fit well.

Me after one of these long ass games

Everyone makes walls in aoe2, I wonder with which logic and how you can draw conclusion about walls from a 3 hr game which is the case once a decade or so, that exactly proofs the bias and subjectivity towards walls.

deleted_user wrote:Everyone makes walls in aoe2, I wonder with which logic and how you can draw conclusion about walls from a 3 hr game which is the case once a decade or so, that exactly proofs the bias and subjectivity towards walls.

Walls in aoe 2 are made from 4th resource, stone. which you will run out of in a longer games, so you can't spam them. You can't even remotely compare aoe 2 walls to aoe 3 walls, c'mon...

Or how often have you seen in aoe 2 streams that people are building 10 layers of stone walls in aoe 3 fashion..?

You still have time to delete your post.

Aoe2 is so completely different that I wonder all the time why people bring it up.

Early walls are pretty strong, in turn, everyone plays SimCity in the first 15 minutes of a game (no disrespect, just stating the obvious). Pros quickwall instead of walling the entire base, still confirms that walls are very strong.
Mid game walls, say you are playing on arena, are not so strong anymore because you can destroy them quite easily with age 3 siege or units with high overall dmg such as arambai.
Late game walls are almost useless because they get shred to pieces by siege instantly.

In Aoe2, walls are made from stone that is needed for castles way mpre than it is needed for walls.
In Aoe3 nobody cares whether wood runs out, so you are free to spam 5w bastion walls all over the map.


Summary:
In Aoe2, the later the game goes, the less of an impact walls have.
In Aoe3, the later the game goes, the more obnoxious walls become.

Yea the game design is that much different that the walls have a totally different impact.

Your post and combined with the fact all the civs eco scales pretty much the same compared to the stupid disparity in aoe3.
In aoe2 you cant just make 4 layers of walls to avoid making units and outboom your opponents, no your opponent can do the same boom without the walls, not wasting ressources on it and so get in a better spot.
So you can counter too much walls with (almost) no walls thats simple and a good design. In aoe3 it help you to counter the skill gap with your opponent

princeofkabul wrote:

deleted_user wrote:Everyone makes walls in aoe2, I wonder with which logic and how you can draw conclusion about walls from a 3 hr game which is the case once a decade or so, that exactly proofs the bias and subjectivity towards walls.

Walls in aoe 2 are made from 4th resource, stone. which you will run out of in a longer games, so you can't spam them. You can't even remotely compare aoe 2 walls to aoe 3 walls, c'mon...

Or how often have you seen in aoe 2 streams that people are building 10 layers of stone walls in aoe 3 fashion..?

You still have time to delete your post.

I hope you are aware that the thread is about 3hr game and there is actually demand to nerf even early game walls while it's not even relevant with the topic itself, also while wall LOS nerfed by %75 (From 4 to 1) and hp by %50 + bastion build time by -%50. C'mon

You still have time to delete your post.

blasdg wrote: Summary:
In Aoe2, the later the game goes, the less of an impact walls have.
In Aoe3, the later the game goes, the more obnoxious walls become.

It's because both players made significant mistakes to delay it to 3hr game I'm sure of it, normally you dont even get to the point where the game ends up in age5 in aoe3, that used to be something like only %3-%4 of the games based on the agecommunity stats or so, and in very late game of course you are going to make walls to protect your base, what else do you expect? don't make any walls and turn aoe3 into a raid game in late game or what? raids are already super rewarded in aoe3, anwyay it's getting ridiculous, out.

deleted_user wrote:

princeofkabul wrote:

deleted_user wrote:Everyone makes walls in aoe2, I wonder with which logic and how you can draw conclusion about walls from a 3 hr game which is the case once a decade or so, that exactly proofs the bias and subjectivity towards walls.

Walls in aoe 2 are made from 4th resource, stone. which you will run out of in a longer games, so you can't spam them. You can't even remotely compare aoe 2 walls to aoe 3 walls, c'mon...

Or how often have you seen in aoe 2 streams that people are building 10 layers of stone walls in aoe 3 fashion..?

You still have time to delete your post.

Are you aware that the thread is about 3hr game and there is actually demand to nerf even early game walls while it's not even relevant with the topic itself, also while wall LOS nerfed by %75 (From 4 to 1) and hp by %50 + bastion build time by -%50. C'mon

You still have time to delete your post.

Are you aware that the thread is about 3hr game

so?

there is actually demand to nerf even early game walls

where?

-50% build time is nothing, they were fastest built building for no real reason before. 5w for a wall is a joke.
and if the devs would implement smth like cost increase on bastion walls, it would be justified and directly aimed at the lategame. Not early game walling, as bastion comes in later on.

Still don't know why you'd compare aoe 2 and aoe 3 walling.

Some context: Russia went for a timing (14v ageup, 700c/5 cossack) while China ff'ed, taking some damage in the process but managing to stabilize. Afterwards, China had more mass but less eco. Constant fighting. Made a few scary pushes but could never quite end the game due to defenders advantage. There were no walls at all until about minute 40 or so, after which the game devolved into TR.

why did blue give up btw? Game doesnt look over yet.
Increasing wall cost in treaty to 10 w 5 c each wouldnt actually change anything significant imo

it was 3am for him and 3pm for me so he had to sleep xD

Make wall cost dependent on distance to your original TC, thereby simulating the difficulties of projecting sufficient power to construct fortifications far away from the main centers of your civilization.