Civilization Overview: The United States

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Brazil lemmings121
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Re: Civilization Overview: The United States

Post by lemmings121 »

oh, they also have the best explorer, 500hp + aura buff + some other stuff
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France iNcog
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Re: Civilization Overview: The United States

Post by iNcog »

lemmings121 wrote:I don't want to sound pessimist but for real, who tough a ship with 80 range in fortress age was a good idea?

without playing a game, anyone with aoe experience can see that this is a huge problem, will be game defining, and will be the topic of many balance threads in foruns.
80? wha a fucking joke
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Garja wrote: ↑
20 Mar 2020, 21:46
I just hope DE is not going to implement all of the EP changes. Right now it is a big clusterfuck.
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Re: Civilization Overview: The United States

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Post by blasdg »

You can REALLY see why Aoe3 is such a clusterfuck to balance compared to Aoe2.

New Civ in Aoe2:
Basically just like all the other civs in the game. Cav archer unique unit that is close to the 10 cav archers that already exist in the game. Wood gathers faster. All upgrades in rax and archery range cost -50% coin. Team bonus: The whole team can build houses 80% faster.

New Civ in Aoe3:
Completely new and unique age-up mechanic with a total of 20 different choices that affect the deck as well. 30 max cards for increased variance. Explorer with aura and capture-the-flag-mini-game. Whack units. Immigration cards instead of settlers. Book crates. 80 range ships. Capitol with million upgrades in age 3. Ships that build docks. 21 range skirms. Minuteman that dont decay below 50% HP.
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Re: Civilization Overview: The United States

Post by CR_Joops »

blasdg wrote:You can REALLY see why Aoe3 is such a clusterfuck to balance compared to Aoe2.

New Civ in Aoe2:
Basically just like all the other civs in the game. Cav archer unique unit that is close to the 10 cav archers that already exist in the game. Wood gathers faster. All upgrades in rax and archery range cost -50% coin. Team bonus: The whole team can build houses 80% faster.

New Civ in Aoe3:
Completely new and unique age-up mechanic with a total of 20 different choices that affect the deck as well. 30 max cards for increased variance. Explorer with aura and capture-the-flag-mini-game. Whack units. Immigration cards instead of settlers. Book crates. 80 range ships. Capitol with million upgrades in age 3. Ships that build docks. 21 range skirms. Minuteman that dont decay below 50% HP.
This. Vanilla was kind of like AoE2 in that sense. Similar civs with minor differences.

TWC ruined it a bit, TAD broke it, DE smashed it to pieces, now THIS.

It's now absolutely impossible for anyone new to learn this game with any real knowledge of civs across the board.

Having said that I will enjoy learning the new civ. It just feels overcomplicated.
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Re: Civilization Overview: The United States

Post by PancakePrincess »

Okay guys, having concerns about the balance is one thing, but AoE 2 as a positive example? No way, that game has always been balanced around a few (or one) top civ(s) dominating their respective maps. Did you guys miss like 10 years of viking wars on water maps? Aztecs in their prime on Arena? Spanish in team games? Or like just look at the hidden cup statistics sheet. AoE 2 is a lot of things, but not balanced. It's kinda like LoL or Dota really.
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Nauru Dolan
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Re: Civilization Overview: The United States

Post by Dolan »

LoL is imbalanced on purpose, to sell more skins for OP champs.
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United States of America Squamiger
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Re: Civilization Overview: The United States

Post by Squamiger »

i guess if they just keep adding enough civs, balance will matter less bc no one will even have time to play or learn them all
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Latvia harcha
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Re: Civilization Overview: The United States

Post by harcha »

or push away competitive players from aoe3 because of balance issues and quite possibly into aoe4
POC wrote:Also I most likely know a whole lot more than you.
POC wrote:Also as an objective third party, and near 100% accuracy of giving correct information, I would say my opinions are more reliable than yours.
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Re: Civilization Overview: The United States

Post by ShinkuroYukinari »

lemmings121 wrote:
Mitoe wrote:
Show hidden quotes
So you essentially reach Age2 with 20 vils. Jesus Christ...
Aussie_Drongo wrote: feels a little bit on the weak side
I get that you're obligated to be as optimistic as possible given how you got earlier access to this civ, but surely even you see how this civ is utterly absurd on many levels and will likely have to be castrated in order to preserve balance.

-Reuseable Minutemen that don't fall to 1HP but 100, making them very much useable in combat outside of the raid or that fight you barely won, thereby shitting down effective raid potential via sheer presence, not to mention them reinforcing your next army.
-Skirms that are Cassador on steroids reaching range to rival some artillery pieces
-Explorer that can reach 3000HP in Fortress(excuse me?), that also buffs your very strong units through the Flag, plus abilities.
-Unlike most civs which have to wait for Age4 to build Forts, and until then rely on shipped Wagons, America gets it as a bonus, massively benefiting in map control.
-80 range warships in Fortress, allowing you to dominate water
-essentially a 20vil economy upon hitting Age2 thanks to the trickles
-not just capability, proficiency at any strat thanks to the flexibility of immigrants and ageups
-Irish immigrants can be used at many points for a massive economic jump
-Magyar Hussar.
What can America not do? Rush? With a shipment lead ahead of even Spain, even that is likely possible thanks to how solid their units are and possibility of training their Skirms and Dragoons age2. Hell, you can add a cost-efficient boost to your army thanks to your actually useable Minutemen.

Don't get me wrong, the civ looks incredibly fun. Problem is that it is simply overloaded compared to all other civs. It will likely have to be nerfed at many points in order to be balanced, and it's clearly intended to be overpowered to sell the DLC, especially to people looking for easy ELO.
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Re: Civilization Overview: The United States

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Post by Mr_Bramboy »

I think you're all overreacting quite a bit. As someone who has played quite a few games with and against the USA, I can confidently say that the USA does have some glaring weaknesses. The games you saw on Aussie's stream were mostly team games, which tend to play into the USA's late game strengths. But in 1v1 games, the USA struggles against early musk rushes and early fortress timings. I am glad I am not in charge of balancing a civ that is this packed with features, though. All in all I do like the addition of the USA.
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Re: Civilization Overview: The United States

Post by harcha »

Explorer upgrades are intended to be in IV and V, not both in III.
POC wrote:Also I most likely know a whole lot more than you.
POC wrote:Also as an objective third party, and near 100% accuracy of giving correct information, I would say my opinions are more reliable than yours.
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Re: Civilization Overview: The United States

Post by robo »

harcha wrote:Explorer upgrades are intended to be in IV and V, not both in III.
They are both in Age IV, and explorer gets to 2975hp
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Re: Civilization Overview: The United States

Post by InaLeto »

I don’t get it:

How can I, as a Spaniard or Briton, discover a new world (~1500) and meet the united states while I have to expanding my colony and progressing in time?

Am i the only one who sees this as a problem? Did I miss something?
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Re: Civilization Overview: The United States

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Post by WickedCossack »

Yea I agree with Bram, for what it's worth after playing a few games with them my initial impression is that they are on the weaker side.

I think they will struggle a lot at the 5 min - 9 min mark of the game but for sure if you come out of that well their scaling looks very decent in terms of both units and eco. It initially seems OP to age at a decent time with a bank and 13-15 vils but you actually have no resources banked (because it costs significant res to send CDB and bank) whereas a civ like French can hit age 2 with almost 1k res banked. I really felt that on the games.

Still though can't say that much after a couple of hours, im sure we'll get to good balance soon.

It's also not pay to win as anyone can unlock the civ through the challenges Shinko!
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Re: Civilization Overview: The United States

Post by harcha »

AOE3 was never about historical accuracy
POC wrote:Also I most likely know a whole lot more than you.
POC wrote:Also as an objective third party, and near 100% accuracy of giving correct information, I would say my opinions are more reliable than yours.
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Re: Civilization Overview: The United States

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Post by musketeer925 »

To everyone who says USA isn't in the timeline: the French leader is Napoleon, who took power in 1804...

Interactions of the newly founded United States with colonizers seems well within the theme of the game.
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Re: Civilization Overview: The United States

Post by ShinkuroYukinari »

Is having a
It's also not pay to win as anyone can unlock the civ through the challenges Shinko!
After 17 days, assuming the player manages to complete the maximum 3 challenges each day.
Technically free, but the caveat should not be ignored.
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Re: Civilization Overview: The United States

Post by Squamiger »

One ridiculous civ bonus is a state card that lets you go to the industrial age for free, just 350% slower. So you can throw down another TC for villies, and just hit age 4 without ever having to sacrifice military production. seems like a bad idea to disrupt a fundamental part of this game, which is about deciding whether to invest in military or age
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Re: Civilization Overview: The United States

Post by InaLeto »

One can certainly say that the timing accuracy is not one of the strengths of this game. But the topic of the colonization of a new world was already the main theme of the game, hence the basic idea of deliveries from the hometown.
In terms of timing and theme, the game also starts right here: crossbowmen yes, cannons no (not until later ...).

Cannons already existed in the time of napoleon, the choice of the leader is therefore more like in the civilization games: Ghandi conquers there the world for the Indians ;)

And what was the purpose of the declaration of independence in the form of a revolution in the fourth age?

Don't get me wrong, i'm just confused.
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Re: Civilization Overview: The United States

Post by Cometk »

Squamiger wrote:One ridiculous civ bonus is a state card that lets you go to the industrial age for free, just 350% slower. So you can throw down another TC for villies, and just hit age 4 without ever having to sacrifice military production. seems like a bad idea to disrupt a fundamental part of this game, which is about deciding whether to invest in military or age
it might not be as good as it sounds? if it's unlocked as a politician going up to age 3, then u need to send a card after it (1000 res since ur in fortress), then build another town center (500w + vills need to build it as explorer cant so even more resources basically), then that town center cannot produce any villagers for ~7 mins while you passively age up to 4. and u also sacrifice the opportunity to go up to industrial quickly. also need to ensure that the town center gets built in the first place, and isn't destroyed in the time it take u to age to 4
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Re: Civilization Overview: The United States

Post by I_HaRRiiSoN_I »

Me and drongo have played lots of games so that he can work out what is going on, in 1v1 games i'm like 13-1 up versus him? i expected to drop more vs aussie who is a much better player but so far the us early game could do with some love. I know the US is new and loads of cards and strats havent been tested in real games yet but they seem to lack tempo which is strange as they all the xp crates. Very fun deep civ, looking forward to cast games featuring america
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Re: Civilization Overview: The United States

Post by helln00 »

So atleast I got the theme of the US right, boom civ that becomes a superpower lategame

edit: the way the immigrant shipment feels to me makes me think that they took a lot of ideas for the civs from the Napoleonic Era mod
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Re: Civilization Overview: The United States

Post by Dolan »

Seems more like ersatz civ made from features borrowed from other civs.
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Re: Civilization Overview: The United States

Post by RefluxSemantic »

musketeer925 wrote:To everyone who says USA isn't in the timeline: the French leader is Napoleon, who took power in 1804...

Interactions of the newly founded United States with colonizers seems well within the theme of the game.
For the record, Gall from the Lakota lived from 1840 to 1894 so that'd make for an even better argument
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Re: Civilization Overview: The United States

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Post by Garja »

It's not about being weak or strong (although units certainly are on the stronger side) it's just that the civ is incredibly complicated compared to all previous civs. It's so complicated that I'm not even sure the various techs/mechanics/etc. have significant synergy with each other.
I mean if you look at original legacy civs, especially vanilla and TWC, they all had their style and their features crafted to fit it. TAD civs are a bit of a spinoff. Swedes and Inca have their own style but probably too many features. Now USA seem to get everything possible, at least unit wise. Also tons of new mechanics that ye they add variety but are somewhat in conflict with foundamentals of RTS. I understand the melting pot but it's a bit of a mess really.
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