The DE generation

[harcha]

DE generation is also Degeneration
what a coincidence

[speedflyer]

no one is forcing you to play 1.4k vs 2x2k. we just all know each other, some better some worse. I think it was fun in TAD where we played all rdm teams. now it is not and probably will not be. regarding kevin i meant kevinitalien and i played a few games against you so something is playing in the team

No one is forcing you ? the game is forcing me.
Ofc he played some games , but def not that much you've been unlucky ^^

[Jets]

DE generation is also Degeneration
what a coincidence

No puns intended.

[gibson]

Who remembers when shitflyer got clapped by me and the boys in a jailed team tourney and just cried and cried after about how unfare it was.

[princeofcarthage]

unfair*

[CR_Joops]

I've never really waited longer than 3-4 mins for games at 1300-1400 ELO. Realise it'll be annoying further up the ladder though.

[lemmings121]

I guess the main diference is that we were used to make the EP patches, every new patch we would complain and balance whine, but at the end, all the patches had in mind was competitive play.

DE is completely different, at this point is clear that they absolutely do not care about the competitive side of the game. And is kinda understandable, they see that there is 500 competitive 1v1 players in the world, and thousands that just want more shinny canons to use in custom games, so they make the updates thinking about the second group

Its just pointless to tryhard in game to get your build order 2seconds faster when in then next week they will add a civ with 80range ships in fortress age. I'm thinking about the game today more in RE terms: learn some lame stuff and abuse it to have fun. (or play only casual/team games, or just quit)

[RefluxSemantic]

I guess the main diference is that we were used to make the EP patches, every new patch we would complain and balance whine, but at the end, all the patches had in mind was competitive play.

DE is completely different, at this point is clear that they absolutely do not care about the competitive side of the game. And is kinda understandable, they see that there is 500 competitive 1v1 players in the world, and thousands that just want more shinny canons to use in custom games, so they make the updates thinking about the second group

Its just pointless to tryhard in game to get your build order 2seconds faster when in then next week they will add a civ with 80range ships in fortress age. I'm thinking about the game today more in RE terms: learn some lame stuff and abuse it to have fun. (or play only casual/team games, or just quit)

Seems like the healthier mindset anyways. We should make a thread where we suggest good games to play instead of DE

[Jets]

I've never really waited longer than 3-4 mins for games at 1300-1400 ELO. Realise it'll be annoying further up the ladder though.

It is, and you probably end up against kaiserklein

[JKProwler]

I guess the main diference is that we were used to make the EP patches, every new patch we would complain and balance whine, but at the end, all the patches had in mind was competitive play.

DE is completely different, at this point is clear that they absolutely do not care about the competitive side of the game. And is kinda understandable, they see that there is 500 competitive 1v1 players in the world, and thousands that just want more shinny canons to use in custom games, so they make the updates thinking about the second group

Its just pointless to tryhard in game to get your build order 2seconds faster when in then next week they will add a civ with 80range ships in fortress age. I'm thinking about the game today more in RE terms: learn some lame stuff and abuse it to have fun. (or play only casual/team games, or just quit)

Welcome to a game that is constantly getting new content and not just balance changes.

Part of the issue is I think a lot players have been playing a game that was 16 years old that was not getting any new content in over 10 years and players that stuck around learnt to optimize the builds from the same 10+ year old civs with minor balance changes. And this comes with having the comfort knowing what the optimal builds and what your opponents are doing.

I guess that's where the term "boomer" is quite relevant....I'm probably part of that group...but I'm just glad its drawing in some new players to discover the game again.

I just hope the devs can fix some of these annoying bugs and add in some much loved features from the legacy

[lemmings121]

I guess the main diference is that we were used to make the EP patches, every new patch we would complain and balance whine, but at the end, all the patches had in mind was competitive play.

DE is completely different, at this point is clear that they absolutely do not care about the competitive side of the game. And is kinda understandable, they see that there is 500 competitive 1v1 players in the world, and thousands that just want more shinny canons to use in custom games, so they make the updates thinking about the second group

Its just pointless to tryhard in game to get your build order 2seconds faster when in then next week they will add a civ with 80range ships in fortress age. I'm thinking about the game today more in RE terms: learn some lame stuff and abuse it to have fun. (or play only casual/team games, or just quit)

Welcome to a game that is constantly getting new content and not just balance changes.

Part of the issue is I think a lot players have been playing a game that was 16 years old that was not getting any new content in over 10 years and players that stuck around learnt to optimize the builds from the same 10+ year old civs with minor balance changes.

I guess that's where the term "boomer" is quite relevant....I'm probably part of that group...but I'm just glad its drawing in some new players to discover the game again.

I just hope the devs can fix some of these annoying bugs and add in some much loved features from the legacy

New content is fine, but my problem is that the new content doesn't even try to stay in line with the previous. Just as an exemple that I didnt see mentioned: Euro civs have the "advanced arsenal" card. right? USA has a card that is a arsenal wagon+advanced arsenal+all upgrades on arsenal are free. REALLY? its designed to be broken.

[Jets]

Oh he's got a point. And good one.

[helln00]

on the advanced arsenal point, doesn't the US card increase the research time by 3.5x?

that just makes it so slow that it doesn't even justify getting techs for free to me. Rough estimate that means that it takes 2 mins minimum for the first tech to come in (40 sec for the shipment to arrive, like 10 sec for the arsenal to build, 1-2 mins for the tech to research). In games that last usually 15 mins that is a lot of time.

[duckzilla]

on the advanced arsenal point, doesn't the US card increase the research time by 3.5x?

that just makes it so slow that it doesn't even justify getting techs for free to me. Rough estimate that means that it takes 2 mins minimum for the first tech to come in (40 sec for the shipment to arrive, like 10 sec for the arsenal to build, 1-2 mins for the tech to research). In games that last usually 15 mins that is a lot of time.

If all upgrades in arsenal are free + you get an arsenal wagon, you can easily just build a second and third arsenal (there is no limit, right?) and research the techs in parallel. Even if you only want to do skirm upgrades, you save 400 + 450 + 700 + 300 = 1850 resources, if I calculate correctly.

Generally, all the techs are more expensive than a single arsenal building.

[harcha]

i always wondered why i saw 2 arsenals whenever i opened drongos stream

[CR_Joops]

The arsenal thing is just pure overthinking. Advanced arsenal has worked for 16 years without any complaints.

[helln00]

on the advanced arsenal point, doesn't the US card increase the research time by 3.5x?

that just makes it so slow that it doesn't even justify getting techs for free to me. Rough estimate that means that it takes 2 mins minimum for the first tech to come in (40 sec for the shipment to arrive, like 10 sec for the arsenal to build, 1-2 mins for the tech to research). In games that last usually 15 mins that is a lot of time.

If all upgrades in arsenal are free + you get an arsenal wagon, you can easily just build a second and third arsenal (there is no limit, right?) and research the techs in parallel. Even if you only want to do skirm upgrades, you save 400 + 450 + 700 + 300 = 1850 resources, if I calculate correctly.

Generally, all the techs are more expensive than a single arsenal building.

right but that still imposes a time floor of about 2 mins for the techs to come in since even if you start like 2-3 techs at the same time, they still take 1-2 mins to get researched.

its a trade off between resources and time and for a relatively boomy civ that is vulnerable to early attacks I think its not that great of a trade off. not to mention the enemy can much more easily deny your research if it takes so long

[lemmings121]

right, Considering they are free, if you ship one arsenal and build two, you are still paying less then others civs pay to get a single arsenal tech.. but you will have them all. card is just designed to be broken. there is no way someone compared the advanced arsenal card to this new one and said "yeah sounds fair"

Someone could argue that "but usa is bad now!" but that's just the launch patch, if they give them a couple small buffs so they arent so slow, then crazy things like this arsenal start to show in games and prove the civ impossible to balance, and we are back to the beggining of the thread: new content is designed to be fun, not competitive

[Jotunir]

right, Considering they are free, if you ship one arsenal and build two, you are still paying less then others civs pay to get a single arsenal tech.. but you will have them all. card is just designed to be broken. there is no way someone compared the advanced arsenal card to this new one and said "yeah sounds fair"

Someone could argue that "but usa is bad now!" but that's just the launch patch, if they give them a couple small buffs so they arent so slow, then crazy things like this arsenal start to show in games and prove the civ impossible to balance, and we are back to the beggining of the thread: new content is designed to be fun, not competitive

Actually, I think that they are just trying to gild the pill to keep money milking people with this abomination ironically called "Definitive Edition".

[Jets]

It's so far away from being the definitive edition we will play.

The US is not weak against early attacks, having some permanent minutemen around it's quite impactful. Also if you FF you can drop a Fort asap for more security.

Btw, I think this whole passive abilities thing they're implemented it's just something that doesn't fit this game(I still have my thoughts about Chinese critics and divine strike). Where you have dozens of units around, and many of them are so replaceable with another.
Cool down abilities are just for ships and explorers.

You won't think somebody would abuse that mechanic by making small trades? Isn't it just 30 cool down for the outlaws? And they even got a range buff. Also the range advantage from the US units it's something that gives you such an advantage, even a greater one if you research the speed buff tech on the arsenal for free.

[thomasgreen6]

right, Considering they are free, if you ship one arsenal and build two, you are still paying less then others civs pay to get a single arsenal tech.. but you will have them all. card is just designed to be broken. there is no way someone compared the advanced arsenal card to this new one and said "yeah sounds fair"

Someone could argue that "but usa is bad now!" but that's just the launch patch, if they give them a couple small buffs so they arent so slow, then crazy things like this arsenal start to show in games and prove the civ impossible to balance, and we are back to the beggining of the thread: new content is designed to be fun, not competitive

Well no because you are sacrificing sending another shipment i.e 700 wood so in reality you're paying 700 wood + 250 wood for the second arsenal. So its 950 wood for the arsenal techs plus the time it takes to research them etc

[helln00]

It's so far away from being the definitive edition we will play.

The US is not weak against early attacks, having some permanent minutemen around it's quite impactful. Also if you FF you can drop a Fort asap for more security.

Btw, I think this whole passive abilities thing they're implemented it's just something that doesn't fit this game(I still have my thoughts about Chinese critics and divine strike). Where you have dozens of units around, and many of them are so replaceable with another.
Cool down abilities are just for ships and explorers.

You won't think somebody would abuse that mechanic by making small trades? Isn't it just 30 cool down for the outlaws? And they even got a range buff. Also the range advantage from the US units it's something that gives you such an advantage, even a greater one if you research the speed buff tech on the arsenal for free.

I don't think its that their minutemen are permanent, its that their HP floor is higher, so they wont go down to 1 HP naturally. I remember its like 50 HP, which means that for the most part they tank 2 hits instead of 1. That is pretty strong but I don't think its breaking.

[lemmings121]

right, Considering they are free, if you ship one arsenal and build two, you are still paying less then others civs pay to get a single arsenal tech.. but you will have them all. card is just designed to be broken. there is no way someone compared the advanced arsenal card to this new one and said "yeah sounds fair"

Someone could argue that "but usa is bad now!" but that's just the launch patch, if they give them a couple small buffs so they arent so slow, then crazy things like this arsenal start to show in games and prove the civ impossible to balance, and we are back to the beggining of the thread: new content is designed to be fun, not competitive

Well no because you are sacrificing sending another shipment i.e 700 wood so in reality you're paying 700 wood + 250 wood for the second arsenal. So its 950 wood for the arsenal techs plus the time it takes to research them etc

no

situation 1: brit wants a AA upgrade. Send card, pay 250w for arsenal, pay 200w200g for upgrade. Total spent: 1 card+450w+200g for one upgrade.
situation 2, USA wants upgrade: Send card, pay 500w to build another 2 arsenals, have 3 arsenals working on all upgrades on parallel. total spent: 1card+500w, for all upgrades.

[thomasgreen6]

right, Considering they are free, if you ship one arsenal and build two, you are still paying less then others civs pay to get a single arsenal tech.. but you will have them all. card is just designed to be broken. there is no way someone compared the advanced arsenal card to this new one and said "yeah sounds fair"

Someone could argue that "but usa is bad now!" but that's just the launch patch, if they give them a couple small buffs so they arent so slow, then crazy things like this arsenal start to show in games and prove the civ impossible to balance, and we are back to the beggining of the thread: new content is designed to be fun, not competitive

Well no because you are sacrificing sending another shipment i.e 700 wood so in reality you're paying 700 wood + 250 wood for the second arsenal. So its 950 wood for the arsenal techs plus the time it takes to research them etc

no

situation 1: brit wants a AA upgrade. Send card, pay 250w for arsenal, pay 200w200g for upgrade. Total spent: 1 card+450w+200g for one upgrade.
situation 2, USA wants upgrade: Send card, pay 500w to build another 2 arsenals, have 3 arsenals working on all upgrades on parallel. total spent: 1card+500w, for all upgrades.

Oh no I was talking about the base cost not comparing to AA but you still have to factor in the time cost

[lemmings121]

Show hidden quotes

right, Considering they are free, if you ship one arsenal and build two, you are still paying less then others civs pay to get a single arsenal tech.. but you will have them all. card is just designed to be broken. there is no way someone compared the advanced arsenal card to this new one and said "yeah sounds fair"

Someone could argue that "but usa is bad now!" but that's just the launch patch, if they give them a couple small buffs so they arent so slow, then crazy things like this arsenal start to show in games and prove the civ impossible to balance, and we are back to the beggining of the thread: new content is designed to be fun, not competitive

Well no because you are sacrificing sending another shipment i.e 700 wood so in reality you're paying 700 wood + 250 wood for the second arsenal. So its 950 wood for the arsenal techs plus the time it takes to research them etc

no

situation 1: brit wants a AA upgrade. Send card, pay 250w for arsenal, pay 200w200g for upgrade. Total spent: 1 card+450w+200g for one upgrade.
situation 2, USA wants upgrade: Send card, pay 500w to build another 2 arsenals, have 3 arsenals working on all upgrades on parallel. total spent: 1card+500w, for all upgrades.

Oh no I was talking about the base cost not comparing to AA but you still have to factor in the time cost

true, if you really really want only militar drummers , then yea, usa will take longer. but you probably will want as well attack and hp right? usa will get all 3 at the same time