African Civ Design Expectations

[Challenger_Marco]

So we know for sure African DLC is coming in the future from Age Fan Preview video.So let's now talk about it!
My guess would be it will have some WOL influence,so far from the new civs USA & Sweden had some wol influence & Inca was totally unique but it's also possible the new civs might be totally unique like Incas.


Reference: https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/afric ... ion/122908
Green: Fort
Yellow: Towncenter
Orange: Market
Purple: First looks like a market, but probably barracks (army tents and troops)
Light Blue:European church = consulate?

I think i agree on every color predictions except Light Blue.
Light Blue i feel like most prolly a unique building called "Library" or smth similar perhaps ,in WOL there is a unique building called library similar looking fashion like consulate where you need to research techs to age up ,there were 3 rows of techs ,each row unlocking you buildings & with bonuses ,1st row unlocks military building ,2nd gives you economic stuff ,3rd defensive stuff like tower and also granting them various bonuses along with it.So I kinda expect something similar in DE as well.

Anyways for the most part ,following the distinct features for each civ aoe3 should be having, African civ should have a new age up mechanic.

Design expectations:
->New way of aging up
->Unique civ Bonus
->Unique units
->Unique Buildings
->Unique cards
->Unique Naval
->Unique explorer

The USA in first look was very interesting having such complexity and giving the audience urge to play & test it out! I would say it was a success but it could have been better if there was features like above! currently 7400 ppl are playing aoe3 de on steam ! good news ,I'm looking forward for these features for African civs.

Post your thoughts & expectations on how you want it.

[Dolan]

That castle doesn't look like anything built in Africa.
Those that were built in North Africa are mostly mosques or forts built by Arabs.

Outside North Africa, at most you can find structures like this one from Mali, that was also built under the influence of Islamic culture:



I don't know why they're trying to shape this African civ on the blueprint of medieval Euro civs, with big forts and castles, because it doesn't reflect much what's on the ground.

[Jotunir]

[ShinkuroYukinari]

I'll find it funny if they end up mimicking WoL Zulu's Child maturing mechanic and gladly watch people try to play it

[vividlyplain]

@Squamiger

[Squamiger]

That castle doesn't look like anything built in Africa.
Those that were built in North Africa are mostly mosques or forts built by Arabs.

I don't know why they're trying to shape this African civ on the blueprint of medieval Euro civs, with big forts and castles, because it doesn't reflect much what's on the ground.

that fortress is quite African. It's modeled on Fasil Ghebbi, the 17th century Ethiopian fortress at Gondar:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fasil_Ghebbi

[Squamiger]

I think, just like we got Ethiopia as a sneak peak in the historical battles mode, we are going to get Italy in the historical battles mode when Ethiopia comes out as a full civ. That's because I bet we are going to get some kind of reference to the Battle of Adwa, where Menelik II defeated the Italians in a decisive victory and drove them out of Ethiopia. It's pretty remarkable to read about the lengths that Menelik went to, in order to acquire modern European weaponry forhis army at a time when the European powers were carving up Africa: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Adwa

[Squamiger]

Some more things:

Hausa might be a horse themed civ like Lakota, as the Hausa nobility were horsemen and horse processions are still a thing:

Hausa architecture: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hausa_architecture

I wonder if they will include Timbuktu stuff with the Hausa, if its generally meant to be a West Africa civ. The library at Timbuktu would probably feature as an upgrade building.

I can't see them making the Ethiopia civ without a heavy emphasis on churches and monasteries, like the stone cut structures at Lalibela:

the houses pictured in that sneak peak image look a lot like the traditional round residential houses at Lalibela:

[vividlyplain]

Ethiopian fortress at Gondor:

fasil.jpg

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fasil_Ghebbi

damn, LOTR was in Africa?

spoiler

someone had to

[Squamiger]

Ethiopian fortress at Gondor:

fasil.jpg

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fasil_Ghebbi

damn, LOTR was in Africa?

spoiler

someone had to

Congolese in 1898 be like : "Where was Gondar, when the Belgians closed in around us?!"

[Dolan]

That castle doesn't look like anything built in Africa.
Those that were built in North Africa are mostly mosques or forts built by Arabs.

I don't know why they're trying to shape this African civ on the blueprint of medieval Euro civs, with big forts and castles, because it doesn't reflect much what's on the ground.

that fortress is quite African. It's modeled on Fasil Ghebbi, the 17th century Ethiopian fortress at Gondar:

fasil.jpg

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fasil_Ghebbi

And Fasil Ghebbi is modelled on

Nubian, Arab, and Hindu architectural design, with later Baroque Architectural styling introduced by Jesuit Missionaries

I guess what I'm saying is that they're grasping at whatever rare occurrence of a castle-like structure to create the impression that this kind of buildings were widespread in Africa, but they weren't. It's like a little rarity here or there.

[vividlyplain]

That castle doesn't look like anything built in Africa.
Those that were built in North Africa are mostly mosques or forts built by Arabs.

I don't know why they're trying to shape this African civ on the blueprint of medieval Euro civs, with big forts and castles, because it doesn't reflect much what's on the ground.

that fortress is quite African. It's modeled on Fasil Ghebbi, the 17th century Ethiopian fortress at Gondar:

fasil.jpg

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fasil_Ghebbi

And Fasil Ghebbi is modelled on

Nubian, Arab, and Hindu architectural design, with later Baroque Architectural styling introduced by Jesuit Missionaries

The original buildings were influenced by Nubian, Arab, and Hindu architectural design, with later Baroque Architectural styling introduced by Jesuit Missionaries.

Here, I found the rest of the sentence for you. Having the "influences" from all those styles is much different than being "modeled" on something. I don't enjoy debating semantics, but you clearly cherrypicked what you wanted to read.

[Kawapasaka]

Based on current trends, I expect all their infantry to have at least 7 speed.

[Dolan]

Show hidden quotes

That castle doesn't look like anything built in Africa.
Those that were built in North Africa are mostly mosques or forts built by Arabs.

I don't know why they're trying to shape this African civ on the blueprint of medieval Euro civs, with big forts and castles, because it doesn't reflect much what's on the ground.

that fortress is quite African. It's modeled on Fasil Ghebbi, the 17th century Ethiopian fortress at Gondar:

fasil.jpg

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fasil_Ghebbi

And Fasil Ghebbi is modelled on

Nubian, Arab, and Hindu architectural design, with later Baroque Architectural styling introduced by Jesuit Missionaries

The original buildings were influenced by Nubian, Arab, and Hindu architectural design, with later Baroque Architectural styling introduced by Jesuit Missionaries.

Here, I found the rest of the sentence for you. Having the "influences" from all those styles is much different than being "modeled" on something. I don't enjoy debating semantics, but you clearly cherrypicked what you wanted to read.

Yeah, it means there's no actual native style that looks like that. We've also built lots of neo-classical public buildings here in Romania influenced by French architecture, but it doesn't mean that style was native.

[Squamiger]

That castle doesn't look like anything built in Africa.
Those that were built in North Africa are mostly mosques or forts built by Arabs.

I don't know why they're trying to shape this African civ on the blueprint of medieval Euro civs, with big forts and castles, because it doesn't reflect much what's on the ground.

that fortress is quite African. It's modeled on Fasil Ghebbi, the 17th century Ethiopian fortress at Gondar:

fasil.jpg

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fasil_Ghebbi

And Fasil Ghebbi is modelled on

Nubian, Arab, and Hindu architectural design, with later Baroque Architectural styling introduced by Jesuit Missionaries

I guess what I'm saying is that they're grasping at whatever rare occurrence of a castle-like structure to create the impression that this kind of buildings were widespread in Africa, but they weren't. It's like a little rarity here or there.

Of course these kinds of buildings weren't widespread in Africa-- they were part of a unique Ethiopian architectural tradition. What's your point? Or do you mean, stone buildings in general? Because you could say the same thing about 17th century Europe-- stone fortresses were relatively rare abodes of the high-born elites, and most people lived in earth and thatch cottages, not unlike Ethiopian roundhouses.

And yes, the architectural style of Ethiopian elites was influenced by other elite architectural forms across the Indian Ocean, again, what's your point?

[Squamiger]

(i know your point, your initial point was to not so subtly imply that black Africans couldn't possibly have made big fancy stone buildings and the devs are being SJWs by adding that into the game, but you were wrong so just take this as a moment to learn something)

[Le Hussard sur le toit]

I hope Ethiopia has churches/monasteries and some mechanic that reminds of their relation with Portugal in the 17 century.

[duckzilla]

I hope Ethiopia has churches/monasteries and some mechanic that reminds of their relation with Portugal in the 17 century.

I like seeing the relations between civs reflected in cards and other mechanics. It's nice that the game actually delivers well in this regard. The consulate and US immigrant mechanics are good and some civs have even more options, e.g. by shipping foreign troops as in the Haudenosaunee cuirs shipment.

Leaves me optimistic that we will see what you are hoping for.

[Dolan]

(i know your point, your initial point was to not so subtly imply that black Africans couldn't possibly have made big fancy stone buildings and the devs are being SJWs by adding that into the game, but you were wrong so just take this as a moment to learn something)

Well, in general, they didn't make big fancy buildings, I don't even have to try to make this point because all you have to do is just look at what's there. The few ones that did get built were the product of a few rich kingdoms. And what do rulers do when they have a lot of resources, such as gold which they trade in exchange for other materials? They get the taste of power and want this reflected in their status, in how they live, they want to emulate rulers from other kingdoms, inasmuch as they know about them. They often visit those other places or have travellers sent there, which describe what they saw there. And that's how they get such ideas that they need to build some of those big structures that were seen elsewhere. But again, these were not characteristic of most of Africa's architecture. Sure, you can find maybe one or two in Ethiopia, due to their proximity to the Middle East, from which they got influenced. That's the case for those nations in the "horn of Africa", like Ethiopia and Somalia. But if you go to Angola or Zambia, you won't find any castles or forts built by natives.

I'm not saying this to imply anything about the devs and SJW stuff, just pointing out that they're forcing this idea of medieval age and castle architecture on the rest of the world, when the medieval era didn't exist outside Europe, it's a European historical concept. It would be like the Chinese making a game about the Han dynasty with buildings from that era then adding civs from all around the world and trying to shoehorn their architecture to look like Han buildings. Something like that.

[Astaroth]

I really don't see the problem here. Ethiopia apparently did have castles like that. If one of the new civs is "Ethiopia", what's wrong with them having stone fortifications of that kind?

I'm not a fan of needless changes to the game (e.g. "commerce age" or "estates" rather than plantations), but I see no problem with adding a civ with cool features. Of course there will always be some artistic liberties, some exaggerations to make civs more interesting and balanced (were Aztecs able to compete with industrial age European armies IRL - no, but it's still fine they can in game), but that's completely fine.

[Dolan]

Yeah they did, but to say that castles were widespread enough there to be characteristic of how they waged war is a big stretch tbh.
Anyway, the development company will try to milk as much money as possible by looking for the smallest alibi to add another civ.
Heck they might add Romanians as a civ and claim we were a civilisation of castles, when we barely had a few. Most medieval warfare here didn't involve sieging a castle, it was fought in open field or in swamps.

[Squamiger]

Well, in general, they didn't make big fancy buildings, I don't even have to try to make this point because all you have to do is just look at what's there. The few ones that did get built were the product of a few rich kingdoms. And what do rulers do when they have a lot of resources, such as gold which they trade in exchange for other materials? They get the taste of power and want this reflected in their status, in how they live, they want to emulate rulers from other kingdoms, inasmuch as they know about them.

source pls, for this super broad generalization about an entire continent that you know almost nothing about.

They often visit those other places or have travellers sent there, which describe what they saw there. And that's how they get such ideas that they need to build some of those big structures that were seen elsewhere. But again, these were not characteristic of most of Africa's architecture. Sure, you can find maybe one or two in Ethiopia, due to their proximity to the Middle East, from which they got influenced. That's the case for those nations in the "horn of Africa", like Ethiopia and Somalia.

source pls. Why do you assume that Ethiopian rulers were influenced by outsiders, and not the other way around? Ethiopia has a unique tradition of monumental architecture going back possibly as far as 1000 BC, with the proto-Aksumite Dmt kingdom. There's two things here: Ethiopian architecture is very distinct and unique, as the country with one of the oldest traditions of Christianity in the world. It's quite different from much of the architecture on Somalia and the East African coast, which was more influenced by Islamic art styles but also was equally an indigenous tradition and not just a copy. There are many features of East African monumental architecture that are found nowhere else in the Islamic world, like porites coral carved niches, pillar tombs, and mosques without minarets. The earliest stone structures in East Africa were built directly on top of, and in the same form as, pre-Islamic wooden buildings. The idea that African elites just copied buildings from elsewhere is fundamentally incorrect. I mostly know about the East African examples but I would bet it's the same situation in West Africa as well.

But if you go to Angola or Zambia, you won't find any castles or forts built by natives.

What does that have to do with anything? They are making Hausa and Ethiopia civs so this is irelevant.

I'm not saying this to imply anything about the devs and SJW stuff, just pointing out that they're forcing this idea of medieval age and castle architecture on the rest of the world, when the medieval era didn't exist outside Europe, it's a European historical concept. It would be like the Chinese making a game about the Han dynasty with buildings from that era then adding civs from all around the world and trying to shoehorn their architecture to look like Han buildings. Something like that.

Who said anything about the medieval era? AoE3 is a colonial era game, and Ethiopians and Hausa people in the colonial period were building large stone and mudbrick fortifications across their kingdoms, and that's whats reflected in the sneak peak.

[duckzilla]

"All you have to do is to look what's there" might be difficult, given that basic resources for monumental architecture like stone are not available everywhere, e.g. in the area surrounding the river Niger.

[Le Hussard sur le toit]

My Ethiopia would look something like this :
Units : a buffy pike, an archer with extra range resist, some kind of sowars.
Unique building : monasteries that can receive shipments and garnison vills and buff gather rates around them (build limit = 1 each age), you get one upon aging up. Priests who can buff gather rates around them.
Monasteries would have a 150g for 200xp tech (same rate as merchantilism) but you can research it as many time as you want) and give interesting techs (ie no flat upgrades but things that gives you tactical or strategical options).

Consulate : upon reaching age 2, you can chose between two alliances at the consulate (definitive choice, you won't be able to switch !). Each alliance will give you access to a different set of units and other unique bonus.

The choices should be Ports and Spain.
Ports enables you to train vills at the monastery and to train goons, cassadores and organ guns.
Spain gives you a bonus to xp rate and allows you to train falcs, rods, musks and lancers.
Both allows you to train culvs and mortars.

[Peachrocks]

What I expect? Bugs.

Also the walls of Benin are in the Guinness book of records... so yeah. It’s not all mud huts and primitive stereotypes. A lot of technology and history got destroyed by Europeans simply because it wasn’t how they did things and then perpetuated propaganda to make them look good and the colonised look bad. Propaganda which clearly still gets believed to this day.