African Civ Design Expectations

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Re: African Civ Design Expectations

Post by Squamiger »

Lukas_L99 wrote:
Le Hussard sur le toit wrote:
Lukas_L99 wrote:Idk why ethiopia is such a big candidate, weren’t they pretty irrelevant in the AoE3 era (~1550~1860)?
One of a handful* of nations that managed to avoid colonisation entirely.

*3 if my memory is right.
Right, but they weren't really involved in the time frame AoE is set in?
helln00 wrote:
Lukas_L99 wrote:Idk why ethiopia is such a big candidate, weren’t they pretty irrelevant in the AoE3 era (~1550~1860)?
They were relevant for the wars in the indian ocean and the horn of Africa, I think mostly between the Ottomans and the Portuguese as a christian ally, and then of course later fighting against Italy.
Were they relevant? I didn't really find much about that other than that the Portuguese sent like 2 missionaries, do you have any links for me to read about that?
The war against Italy was almost in 1900, I mean the AoE3 time frame is way earlier.
I think one theme of AoE3 is resistance to colonial rule. Some civs focus more on the discovery / first contact part of the history, from 1500-1700, like the Spanish, Aztecs or Inca. But other civs focus on the later wars of imperial expansion, like the Lakota, with the Indian Wars in the west, the USA, which seems to be more focused on 19th century techs, or India, with the Sepoy Mutiny in the 1850s. I think Ethiopia fits perfectly in this respect, since their war against Italy in the late 19th century was extremely consequential as it was the first example of an African state beating a European power on the battlefield. I imagine they will focus on these aspects, they just need to add Italy now!

Ethiopia also was pretty important geopolitically in East Africa and the western Indian Ocean in the age of discovery, as it was the inspiration for Portuguese explorers to initially attempt sailing east, to look for the mysterious fabled Christian kingdom of Prester John. Of all the civs, Ethiopia would probably fit best into the AoE3 vanilla historical fiction campaign with the circle of Ossus and the knights of st. john, lol
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Re: African Civ Design Expectations

Post by Dolan »

Squamiger wrote:
Dolan wrote:There you go, you got so many likes and support in the thread, you're getting high on it, blowing your own cover and exposing what's behind your posts: same old exploitation of the West's colonial guilt.
But that only works on them, not on me since I'm from Eastern Europe. So I think I can be a lot more objective than either of you, since I don't really care about either your Western cucked mentalities, nor about whatever fate your former subjects had. I'm just interested in understanding a phenomenon. And I'm not looking to win any popularity contest on a gaming forum either.
lol yes get madder and call me a cuck, pls i beg you, its so much better than just admitting you were wrong

also do you even play this game at all
It's obvious you're some minority from the West who got fed that leftist propaganda in schools about how they were at fault for whatever your ancestors went through and they need to repent and pay and need to be villified for it. And these devs are just an epiphenomenon of that same process. That's how Rome became what it is today, not even a shadow of its former self. Its social cohesion was completely dissolved once it became the center of the world. It happens to every empire. Now it's the USA's turn.

Playing a game is no badge of honour, it fills a void in people's lives. They need to get that dopamine going by playing animations in virtual arenas.
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Re: African Civ Design Expectations

Post by Squamiger »

Dolan wrote:
Squamiger wrote:
Dolan wrote:There you go, you got so many likes and support in the thread, you're getting high on it, blowing your own cover and exposing what's behind your posts: same old exploitation of the West's colonial guilt.
But that only works on them, not on me since I'm from Eastern Europe. So I think I can be a lot more objective than either of you, since I don't really care about either your Western cucked mentalities, nor about whatever fate your former subjects had. I'm just interested in understanding a phenomenon. And I'm not looking to win any popularity contest on a gaming forum either.
lol yes get madder and call me a cuck, pls i beg you, its so much better than just admitting you were wrong

also do you even play this game at all
It's obvious you're some minority from the West who got fed that leftist propaganda in schools about how they were at fault for whatever your ancestors went through and they need to repent and pay and need to be villified for it. And these devs are just an epiphenomenon of that same process. That's how Rome became what it is today, not even a shadow of its former self. Its social cohesion was completely dissolved once it became the center of the world. It happens to every empire. Now it's the USA's turn.

Playing a game is no badge of honour, it fills a void in people's lives. They need to get that dopamine going by playing animations in virtual arenas.
comparing the USA to the fall of Rome is the classic dumb guy historical take, i love it
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Re: African Civ Design Expectations

Post by fightinfrenchman »

Squamiger wrote:
Dolan wrote:
Show hidden quotes
It's obvious you're some minority from the West who got fed that leftist propaganda in schools about how they were at fault for whatever your ancestors went through and they need to repent and pay and need to be villified for it. And these devs are just an epiphenomenon of that same process. That's how Rome became what it is today, not even a shadow of its former self. Its social cohesion was completely dissolved once it became the center of the world. It happens to every empire. Now it's the USA's turn.

Playing a game is no badge of honour, it fills a void in people's lives. They need to get that dopamine going by playing animations in virtual arenas.
comparing the USA to the fall of Rome is the classic dumb guy historical take, i love it
There's nothing dumb about it, it's just openly racist
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Re: African Civ Design Expectations

Post by helln00 »

Lukas_L99 wrote:
Le Hussard sur le toit wrote:
Lukas_L99 wrote:Idk why ethiopia is such a big candidate, weren’t they pretty irrelevant in the AoE3 era (~1550~1860)?
One of a handful* of nations that managed to avoid colonisation entirely.

*3 if my memory is right.
Right, but they weren't really involved in the time frame AoE is set in?
helln00 wrote:
Lukas_L99 wrote:Idk why ethiopia is such a big candidate, weren’t they pretty irrelevant in the AoE3 era (~1550~1860)?
They were relevant for the wars in the indian ocean and the horn of Africa, I think mostly between the Ottomans and the Portuguese as a christian ally, and then of course later fighting against Italy.
Were they relevant? I didn't really find much about that other than that the Portuguese sent like 2 missionaries, do you have any links for me to read about that?
The war against Italy was almost in 1900, I mean the AoE3 time frame is way earlier.
I am sourcing from this

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Ethiopia

This is the biggest conflict they were involved in pre-scramble for africa

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethiopian ... 93Adal_war

I think this is the one depicted in the historical battle scenario

Then it was mostly isolationist until the Scramble for Africa where its mostly sporadic conflict with the British and the Ottomans (well Egypt)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethiopian ... yptian_War

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_E ... _Abyssinia

I think the war with Italy is sort of the biggest culmination of these events in their path to modernisation and it kinda similar actually with Japan during the AOE 3 period, with it being the tail end of a large conflict ( the sengoku period), a long period of isolation and opening up around 1860s with the Meiji restoration.
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Re: African Civ Design Expectations

Post by fightinfrenchman »

Dolan wrote:
Squamiger wrote:
Dolan wrote:There you go, you got so many likes and support in the thread, you're getting high on it, blowing your own cover and exposing what's behind your posts: same old exploitation of the West's colonial guilt.
But that only works on them, not on me since I'm from Eastern Europe. So I think I can be a lot more objective than either of you, since I don't really care about either your Western cucked mentalities, nor about whatever fate your former subjects had. I'm just interested in understanding a phenomenon. And I'm not looking to win any popularity contest on a gaming forum either.
lol yes get madder and call me a cuck, pls i beg you, its so much better than just admitting you were wrong

also do you even play this game at all
It's obvious you're some minority from the West who got fed that leftist propaganda in schools about how they were at fault for whatever your ancestors went through and they need to repent and pay and need to be villified for it. And these devs are just an epiphenomenon of that same process. That's how Rome became what it is today, not even a shadow of its former self. Its social cohesion was completely dissolved once it became the center of the world. It happens to every empire. Now it's the USA's turn.

Playing a game is no badge of honour, it fills a void in people's lives. They need to get that dopamine going by playing animations in virtual arenas.
I hope you **** yourself
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Re: African Civ Design Expectations

Post by Squamiger »

^^ dislike. don't **** yourself Dolan, just read more and stop being racist and try to admit when you are wrong.
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Re: African Civ Design Expectations

Post by fightinfrenchman »

Squamiger wrote:^^ dislike
There is nothing wrong with masturbation
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Re: African Civ Design Expectations

Post by ssaa22 »

It would be nice if some African or African-related civilizations were added, including Ethiopia.

In addition, I hope that the civilizations of the African concept will have a completely new and unprecedented function unlike the crappy results made by the DE developers now. Ethiopia was a Christian country and Oman was Ibadi Islam.

However, all these winds will be just winds from the results so far. de developer's output is only copycats and stupid gimmicks, so I can't expect much from it.
The text may be awkward using a translator, But I hope we can talk a lot about good things. GG
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Re: African Civ Design Expectations

Post by oxaloacetate »

Dolan wrote:
Squamiger wrote:
Dolan wrote:There you go, you got so many likes and support in the thread, you're getting high on it, blowing your own cover and exposing what's behind your posts: same old exploitation of the West's colonial guilt.
But that only works on them, not on me since I'm from Eastern Europe. So I think I can be a lot more objective than either of you, since I don't really care about either your Western cucked mentalities, nor about whatever fate your former subjects had. I'm just interested in understanding a phenomenon. And I'm not looking to win any popularity contest on a gaming forum either.
lol yes get madder and call me a cuck, pls i beg you, its so much better than just admitting you were wrong

also do you even play this game at all
It's obvious you're some minority from the West who got fed that leftist propaganda in schools about how they were at fault for whatever your ancestors went through and they need to repent and pay and need to be villified for it. And these devs are just an epiphenomenon of that same process. That's how Rome became what it is today, not even a shadow of its former self. Its social cohesion was completely dissolved once it became the center of the world. It happens to every empire. Now it's the USA's turn.

Playing a game is no badge of honour, it fills a void in people's lives. They need to get that dopamine going by playing animations in virtual arenas.
Elaborate pls
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Re: African Civ Design Expectations

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Post by PancakePrincess »

Maybe it's time for my thread about the socio-economic position of eunuchs in the Chinese empire... :hmm:
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Re: African Civ Design Expectations

Post by Le Hussard sur le toit »

PancakePrincess wrote:Maybe it's time for my thread about the socio-economic position of eunuchs in the Chinese empire... :hmm:
I'm pretty sure @Squamiger actually knows what he is talking about.

Also wikipedia is quite a reliable source as long as you avoid culture war articles.
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Re: African Civ Design Expectations

Post by RefluxSemantic »

Dolan wrote:
Squamiger wrote:
Dolan wrote:There you go, you got so many likes and support in the thread, you're getting high on it, blowing your own cover and exposing what's behind your posts: same old exploitation of the West's colonial guilt.
But that only works on them, not on me since I'm from Eastern Europe. So I think I can be a lot more objective than either of you, since I don't really care about either your Western cucked mentalities, nor about whatever fate your former subjects had. I'm just interested in understanding a phenomenon. And I'm not looking to win any popularity contest on a gaming forum either.
lol yes get madder and call me a cuck, pls i beg you, its so much better than just admitting you were wrong

also do you even play this game at all
It's obvious you're some minority from the West who got fed that leftist propaganda in schools about how they were at fault for whatever your ancestors went through and they need to repent and pay and need to be villified for it. And these devs are just an epiphenomenon of that same process. That's how Rome became what it is today, not even a shadow of its former self. Its social cohesion was completely dissolved once it became the center of the world. It happens to every empire. Now it's the USA's turn.

Playing a game is no badge of honour, it fills a void in people's lives. They need to get that dopamine going by playing animations in virtual arenas.
I love how ridiculous this conclusion is to a discussion where you claimed that fort didnt look like African infrastructure at all while it actually looked exactly like African infrastructure. Must be the leftist propaganda that allows people to look up facts or sth, coz obviously we all know Africans dont have a culture they just live in trees like their ancestors!!!
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Re: African Civ Design Expectations

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Post by Dolan »

Squamiger wrote:comparing the USA to the fall of Rome is the classic dumb guy historical take, i love it
Not really. What Rome had in common with the USA of today is:

- military hegemony
- changing the rules of citizenship to the point that it was no longer just a question of ethnic/cultural belonging, but rather a social status you could get if you joined their military (which is similar to the USA's approach to using the "brain drain" strategy by giving US citizenship to people of any background, as long as they serve their interests) - this led to diluting the cultural cohesion of the empire, it became just like a big business that needed to expand all the time by including more and more territories and people of all kinds of cultures
- eventually this created a certain mentality among Romans that being a citizen was like a mercenary of the state: you do your part, you get paid or get positions, cultural allegiance and cohesion was long gone in the final period of the empire
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Re: African Civ Design Expectations

Post by Dolan »

Squamiger wrote:^^ dislike. don't **** yourself Dolan, just read more and stop being racist and try to admit when you are wrong.
What exactly is racist from what I wrote? Can you explain to me what being racist means, while we're at it? Because it's something that doesn't exist in my culture, so it's like something from books or movies, something you see on TV here. So, maybe it'd be useful to explain first
1. what is "racist" in what I wrote
2. what exactly "racist" means

Does saying that I think most of Africa (that is outside the North which was culturally different) did not have a civilisation of castles qualify as being "racist"?
But I believe the same thing about Romanians. Romanians did not have a civilisation of castles, in fact, it could be argued we barely had a medieval age, at least how that age took place in Western Europe. Since we barely had cities and the middle ages were a civilisation that was also centered on Burgs, on certain classes.
So if you believe that me saying a certain people/culture didn't have castles qualify as racist, then I'm also being racist against Romanians, that is myself included.
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Re: African Civ Design Expectations

Post by Squamiger »

i just mean stop being racist in general
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Re: African Civ Design Expectations

Post by Dolan »

oxaloacetate wrote:
That's how Rome became what it is today, not even a shadow of its former self. Its social cohesion was completely dissolved once it became the center of the world. It happens to every empire. Now it's the USA's turn.
Elaborate pls
Well, I gave a brief description of this process in my answer to Squamiger. This part:
What Rome had in common with the USA of today is:
- changing the rules of citizenship to the point that it was no longer just a question of ethnic/cultural belonging, but rather a social status you could get if you joined their military (which is similar to the USA's approach to using the "brain drain" strategy by giving US citizenship to people of any background, as long as they serve their interests) - this led to diluting the cultural cohesion of the empire, it became just like a big business that needed to expand all the time by including more and more territories and people of all kinds of cultures
There's a very telling passage in Tacitus (https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Anna ... Book_15#44) where he reveals how Rome's position as the center of the world turned it into a stage for the most dubious fads. This tells us that the empire reached such a peak of internal cultural disarray, that people's link with their own culture had disappeared, they were chasing cultural fads brought from all the corners of the empire:
a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judaea, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome, where all things hideous and shameful from every part of the world find their centre and become popular.
Did you ever wonder why the last emperors of Rome were either named or controlled by Germanic generals? Because they belonged to a stronger culture that was not in disarray like the Roman one, which became a cosmopolitan, volatile mess, as described by Tacitus.
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Re: African Civ Design Expectations

Post by Dolan »

Squamiger wrote:i just mean stop being racist in general
What do you mean by that. What you're saying makes no sense to me.
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Re: African Civ Design Expectations

Post by fightinfrenchman »

Dolan wrote:
Squamiger wrote:i just mean stop being racist in general
What do you mean by that. What you're saying makes no sense to me.
Basically it's socially awkward/cringe to be racist and yet you keep being racist, which makes you bad/cringe. Hope this helps, dumbass
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Re: African Civ Design Expectations

Post by Dolan »

RefluxSemantic wrote:I love how ridiculous this conclusion is to a discussion where you claimed that fort didnt look like African infrastructure at all while it actually looked exactly like African infrastructure. Must be the leftist propaganda that allows people to look up facts or sth, coz obviously we all know Africans dont have a culture they just live in trees like their ancestors!!!
I think you misunderstood what was said in this thread. And just wrote this reply as a kneejerk reaction to being put on the spot by the "leftist" label.
Those forts and castles (from cultures in the Horn of Africa) were built under the influence of Middle Eastern and Asian cultures. You can look at those buildings and see elements from Indian forts or that typical blocky structure that you see a lot in the Middle East, which is based on a tradition that originated with the Mesopotamian ziggurat.
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Re: African Civ Design Expectations

Post by Dolan »

fightinfrenchman wrote:
Dolan wrote:
Squamiger wrote:i just mean stop being racist in general
What do you mean by that. What you're saying makes no sense to me.
Basically it's socially awkward/cringe to be racist and yet you keep being racist, which makes you bad/cringe. Hope this helps, dumbass
Basically it's socially awkward/cringe to be a holocaust supporter like yourself, who openly called for a holocaust on boomers.
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Re: African Civ Design Expectations

Post by fightinfrenchman »

It'd be nice if one of the only active mods wasn't a huge racist tbh
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Re: African Civ Design Expectations

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Post by aaryngend »

You guys are supposed to talk about/predict/wish for the features of the upcoming african civs in this thread. Yet you elegantly moved the discussion to something completely different..

Way to go!!!
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Re: African Civ Design Expectations

Post by duckzilla »

I would like to see religion play a role for Ethiopia. But not just 100% coptic christianity. Rather something that reflects the frequent shifts of power between Muslim (e.g. Adal Sultanate) and Christian (e.g. what we call Ethiopia today) forces in the area. Another interesting thing could be the migration of the Oromo people into the region.
According to Richard Pankhurst, an Ethiopia historian, this migration is linked to the first incursions into inland Horn of Africa by Imam Ahmad ibn Ibrahim.[53] According to historian Marianne Bechhaus-Gerst, the migration was one of the consequences of fierce wars of attrition between Christian and Muslim armies in the Horn of Africa region in the 15th and 16th century which killed a lot of people and depopulated the regions near the Galla lands, but also probably a result of droughts in their traditional homelands. Further, they acquired horses and their gada system helped coordinate well equipped Oromo warriors who enabled fellow Oromos to advance and settle into newer regions starting in the 1520s. This expansion continued through the 17th century. sourcysource
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Re: African Civ Design Expectations

Post by Mr_Bramboy »

aaryngend wrote:You guys are supposed to talk about/predict/wish for the features of the upcoming african civs in this thread. Yet you elegantly moved the discussion to something completely different..

Way to go!!!
Just wait until the actual African civs are released.

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