Transendence Ability and Flying Crows, a breakdown

[callentournies]

[uberjz]

somewhat relevant thread: viewtopic.php?f=982&t=21824

perhaps temple of heaven is more viable than people gave it credit for?

[aligator92]

Just yesterday I was wondering who a certain deleted user with 12k posts was when I realized a certain senior Callen was missing from all recent discussions. Seems like you are still alive though.
Also, time for the semiffgang to nerf some broken stuff it seems

[Astaroth]

This is fine. Has basically never been abused in 15 years of the game and will not come into play in like 99,xx % of china games.

Really funny though.

[harcha]

Transcendence is supposed to heal your units up to 1000 total hp, not make artillery immortal. So it's not fine, it's a bug.

[Astaroth]

Isn't this just the units healing up to 1k hitpoints over a period of time? Or does it heal more than that?

[callentournies]

I can't find a changelog but I believe the transcendence ability was buffed to have no heal cap on DE. And it clearly isn't just 1k hp, since both heroes go from dead to 1.8k hp (full hp).

[Astaroth]

I can't find a changelog but I believe the transcendence ability was buffed to have no heal cap on DE. And it clearly isn't just 1k hp, since both heroes go from dead to 1.8k hp (full hp).

Good point. If it's a bug (unintended), it should be fixed of course. If it was intended, then IMO it is fair enough because the wonder essentially doesn't get used.

[harcha]

Yeah I also think it as buffed at some point, but healing should be a one time thing, not keeping china units immortal while fighting.

@Astaroth just because it's unused doesn't mean it should be made OP. How is that fair?

[EAGLEMUT]

The heal cap was removed intentionally to buff the power, as Transcendence was considered the worst wonder power in the game by far.
However, to be honest I never even realized it can re-heal units multiple times throughout a battle. The cap was previously so low that it could not ever realistically happen I guess. Still not really sure that it's OP when I think of all the other wonder bonuses, but it looks viable now at least.

[Astaroth]

@harcha IMO that's exactly the wrong way of talking about balance. You shouldn't just look at one isolated thing and decide if it's OP.

Instead, balance is always a question of context. If e.g. a civ has a weak overall unit roster and a weak eco, it makes sense if one of its units is "OP" because the civ itself is not OP.

The same goes for this: it basically never happens in game, the wonder is very weak overall and even if you reach this point you can still counter it np (e.g. go back and wait for the ability to run out). By removing funny little quirks like this you just make the game less diverse and overall more dull.

@EAGLEMUT exactly. This is like nowhere near OP and essentially every other wonder is still much better.

[helln00]

I remmember that it was changed to heal to full. What is probably happening that the heal is set to stop when the unit reaches full HP. This means that during this period it will always try to heal to full, so attacking it during the period any damage dealt will be healed off until the unit has full HP.

If you want this gone, I guess introduce a time limit to the heal but increase the heal rate so that you can reach the max HP faster. Or to counter it just w8 until the unit reaches max HP

[EAGLEMUT]

If you want this gone, I guess introduce a time limit to the heal but increase the heal rate so that you can reach the max HP faster. Or to counter it just w8 until the unit reaches max HP

I believe there is already a time limit of 20 seconds, rather than being based on max hp. Maybe that time could be tweaked (lowered). Also would definitely be good to display this timer somewhere on the UI.

[Kaiserklein]

20 seconds during which your high HP units basically cannot die sounds extremely stupid, regardless of how strong or weak the wonder is overall.

[helln00]

If you want this gone, I guess introduce a time limit to the heal but increase the heal rate so that you can reach the max HP faster. Or to counter it just w8 until the unit reaches max HP

I believe there is already a time limit of 20 seconds, rather than being based on max hp. Maybe that time could be tweaked (lowered). Also would definitely be good to display this timer somewhere on the UI.

its 20 seconds? whoa thats much longer than what it feels like using it. I feel like there has to be some kind of a stop at max HP cause otherwise it would kinda imply that chinese units are immune from damage for 20 seconds, which I don't think happens when I use it normally.

Though I guess its still possible for units to be oneshot

[helln00]

hmm if its 20 second and doesn't stop at max hp, there are some fun shenannigans you can pull off besides the crow stuff.

Consulate gendarmes/cav and monk essentially have 20 secs of infinite tankability

[Hazza54321]

How can you argue its the wrong way to argue about balance. The wonder never behaved like that until recently currently making your artilerry units immortal and reviving the monk(s) back up to 1800 hp. Its such an obvious bug

[helln00]

How can you argue its the wrong way to argue about balance. The wonder never behaved like that until recently currently making your artilerry units immortal and reviving the monk(s) back up to 1800 hp. Its such an obvious bug

Reviving monks back to 1800 is intended, it has been like this for like a while now. The immortal artillery thing might be a bug or some weird interaction that probably should be fixed

[harcha]

@harcha IMO that's exactly the wrong way of talking about balance. You shouldn't just look at one isolated thing and decide if it's OP.

Instead, balance is always a question of context. If e.g. a civ has a weak overall unit roster and a weak eco, it makes sense if one of its units is "OP" because the civ itself is not OP.

The same goes for this: it basically never happens in game, the wonder is very weak overall and even if you reach this point you can still counter it np (e.g. go back and wait for the ability to run out). By removing funny little quirks like this you just make the game less diverse and overall more dull.

@EAGLEMUT exactly. This is like nowhere near OP and essentially every other wonder is still much better.

You should if the isolated thing is OP. Units are not supposed to be invincible, especially ones that are high damage dealers like crows. To see that this is ridiculously OP you should just refer to OP.

Is there any notification when the healing ends or that it is currently active? I think the ability should be much shorter than 20 seconds if they are going to stick with this way of design, and it shouldn't be strong enough to make a unit invincible when focused down with this much DPS.

[Squamiger]

If we're going to nerf this wonder back to never being used again, pls give back the good age 4 rattans / old han / 119 vills in age 5

[harcha]

@Squamiger not my wish, just don't make units unkillable

[EAGLEMUT]

Well this is interesting, I just re-tested the ability on RE and it seems like it in fact does not repeatedly heal ever, even when the terribly low heal cap has not been reached. It is however defined the exact same way with an active time of 20 seconds. At this point I don't know what was even originally intended to happen here. Another factor is that the power was clearly last-minute swapped for a completely different effect before TAD release, so maybe the original devs left the active time there by mistake and now it somehow started working on DE

[harcha]

in engineering we call this a hidden bug or hidden fault

[Squamiger]

the big vanilla lobby is always trying to bring china down

[Dolan]

in engineering we call this a hidden bug or hidden fault

*Hidden feature