Is it possible to make a living playing Aoe3?

[Dolan]

@Challenger_Marco I kinda doubt those figures a bit. I mean, I doubt streamers who have under 10k regular viewers can really make a living out of it.
A sub costs $4.99 but the streamer only receives half of this ($2.50).
In order to make a basic living in a 1st world country, you probably need to make at least 5000 bucks per month. That means you need around 66 subs per day, on average (depends, if you only stream 5 days per week, you need more, about 100 subs per day). Very few streamers can get 100 subs per stream, probably only the top ones. It's possible that streamers who live in developing countries could make a living with fewer subs, since you can get a similar level of purchasing power with less money, compared to a 1st world country. So, even with 2000 bucks per month you could live comfortably in Russia, Brazil, Poland.

Top streamers also get revenue from ads, it's like $50 per ad. This could add up to about 1500 per month. But that's only for streamers who can pull 20-30 thousand viewers, not for small fry who can barely get one thousand viewers.

All those figures that talk about millions and hundreds of thousands probably only apply to top high earners in esports, who get big sums from prize money. But those are just a few people, like Shroud, Ninja, loltyler1, Faker, etc. There's a huge gap between these and the next tier of streamers below them, because they have a pull effect which draws most of the viewership towards their streams, when they're live. So the second tier of streamers only have a chance to get more views when the top streamers are not live.

That's not really true though, tbh. It depends on your age, family situation, where you live, taxes etc.

If you live in say UK, France or Germany, you can "live" off about 2k euros/month (before taxes) if you don't have a family, don't really save much and live in a somewhat cheap apartment. Your taxes will be fairly low due to your low income. If you e.g. have 1500 euros/month after taxes and pay 500 euro/month for rent (smaller town/apartment), you still have 1k/month to live.

Of course this is NOT a lot of money, you won't be able to have a longterm career of this, you can't live in London or Munich (central), you won't live a great life etc. But it is still comparable to the amount of money a uni student with government or parent support has.

Yes, I know, what you wrote is correct. I also lived in Belgium for about 2 years so I know the costs of living in a Western European country.
However, wages in Europe are lower than in the US and Australia, while purchasing power is not that different, because Europeans get health insurance and education costs covered from taxes. So you end up having less money in the pocket, but also having to spend less on services.

A €500 rent will get you a very poor accommodation in a big city in Europe, something like a flat with one room only, small kitchen and bathroom in a not so great area. If you want a decent flat in a big city in Europe, you have to go above €1000 in rent per month. Then you get a living room, a separate bedroom, bigger kitchen, decent bathroom, in a nice neighbourhood.

You can live ok in Western Europe on €2000 per month, unless you live in London, Rome or Oslo, those cities are very expensive to live in.

[RefluxSemantic]

@Dolan I pay 700 for 22 square meter studio with kitchen and bathroom. (Dutch government gives me rent allowance because Im poor but otherwise the price is insane)

[Jerimuno]

so your argument is the average person right now can not lead a "basic" life in a first world country as it is?

[Dolan]

@Jerimuno
My 5000 estimate was made based on the US mostly, though, as the median income in the US was 62k/year just a few years ago. So 5000 bucks in the US is not considered either high income or uncommon.

I don't know much about Australia, I know I checked their real estate prices and they're among the highest in the world.
It also depends a lot on how many of them have to pay rent or not, how many have kids, which cities they live in, etc.
Home ownership is at a much higher level than in Euro countries. Only about 32% rent in Australia.
Those that pay rent and have lower income also get some allowances to be able to rent.

[Javon]

@Jerimuno
My 5000 estimate was made based on the US mostly, though, as the median income in the US was 68k/year just a few years ago. So 5000 bucks in the US is not considered either high income or uncommon.

I don't know much about Australia, I know I checked their real estate prices and they're among the highest in the world.
It also depends a lot on how many of them have to pay rent or not, how many have kids, which cities they live in, etc.
Home ownership is at a much higher level than in Euro countries. Only about 32% rent in Australia.
Those that pay rent and have lower income also get some allowances to be able to rent.

The $68k/year median income you cite is the median household income, which usually means 2 earners in a household (let's say a couple or parents). So obviously the median income is then about a half of that.

[look]

i live in london, my cost of living is £ 2000(to much)
so dont come to london.. try manchester, liverpool or other.

[Dolan]

@Javon True, but you'd have to check how many earners per households there are. If a significant number of households have kids and homemakers, then it's still one earner per household.
Then there are also lots of millennials now who went back to living with parents or with mates, to avoid paying rent or to split the costs, so they can afford living on lower income.
Also, some people in the US piggyback on someone else's health insurance, I think, to avoid paying for a full coverage, expensive one themselves.

So it kinda depends on each individual case. But if you're a streamer who needs his own space, you'll have to rent your own house and make sure you make enough to pay a higher electricity bill, have the best internet plan you can find, have top gear, etc.
I think it'd be difficult to pull that off with just about 2000 bucks. Not impossible, but just a very budget situation.

[CR_Joops]

i live in london, my cost of living is £ 2000(to much)
so dont come to london.. try manchester, liverpool or other.

I just moved from London to Manchester. I have so much space... and can afford to eat.

[RefluxSemantic]

so your argument is the average person right now can not lead a "basic" life in a first world country as it is?

This is about the median dutch income. But as self employed you need to fix insurance and pension. The insurance is ~ 400 per month, and for median wage they recommend setting aside somethibg like 1000 per month. So your 3000ish a month goes down to 1600 - about the same as minimum wage here. Its not as much as it may seem.

Could be that my numbers are off, Im not really knowledgable other than that I know that employers pay for quite a few services.

[Veer_84]

Youtube: $2000 per month
Twitch Subs: $1200 per month
Patreon: $200 per month
Donations: $200 per month
Sponsorships: $300 per month (only paid sponsorship that I have accepted is VPN provider SurfShark, I have received dozens of offers for mobile games but can't accept them in good faith)
Casting fees: $400 per month

Not bad! Making $4000 AUD per month playing aoe3 and creating content! You're inspiring. I believe 4000 AUD would be decent money in Australia!

[princeofcarthage]

@Aussie_Drongo When>?

[look]

i live in london, my cost of living is £ 2000(to much)
so dont come to london.. try manchester, liverpool or other.

I just moved from London to Manchester. I have so much space... and can afford to eat.

im think about that in future..
i spend every month fuking 1250£ in a shit(small) 2bed apartment

[gibson]

You don't need to take home 5k a month in 99% of the US to have a decent living. You aren't gonna be high rolling but you'll be living comfortably.

[sebnan12]

I think norway and switzerland are the 2 most expensive countries in europe afaik.
U can easily live here with a minimum wage which is like 3600.- per month.
And if u have a little side income like selling stuff for agencies like polices or selling weed or something u can have a nice life.

[FrancoPadini]

Tomorrow I become a streamer then... In Argentina you can have a nice living with 200 USD , with 500 USD you´re well above the average.
I´ve been thinking about it for a while but I didn´t know if the revenue was worth pursuing, otherwise I´d just keep playing for my own pleasure.

[gibson]

Tomorrow is the day you become disspointed, you won't make 200 usd a month streaming. You start as a hobby and if it becomes more than that that's great, if not nothings lost.

[aaryngend]

Probably not. However, with aoe4 coming out this September, things may change. Drongo and others are anticipating possible growth and we can only applaud them for the risks they're taking for our entertainment.

That being said, if you subscribe to Drongo's twitch his chances of making it considerably increase!

This. They are mostly gambling on aoe4 getting big and being in the forefront when/if that happens.
Everybody in a comfortable position can cut down other areas of their lives to have more time for streaming, in some cases even quitting their full-time job for a certain amount of time. If it doesn't work out in a year or so, I'm sure Drongo can go back to his old life and job. It's not like he is throwing away his life, sleeping on the streets after the fulltime streaming gig if it goes south. The possibilities are endless!

Even as a side job it can pay enough so that you gladly stream a couple of hours here and there. A female friend of mine is a streamer and she makes a living off of it (easily 4k+ € a month) but she doesn't do it full-time, she streams like 5-6 hours a day most days of the week (more on saturday or sunday) and if she is busy in life, she cuts down on the streaming schedule, making it 3x per week for like 2-4 hours.

In order to make a basic living in a 1st world country, you probably need to make at least 5000 bucks per month.

Whaat? No! In Germany, you can make a living (albeit a shitty one at that though) with 2000 Brutto, meaning before taxes. For other countries, like Poland which is Germany's neighbour, 900€+ a month are enough to live off of if you live in a cheaper area + know how to spend your money.
5000 bucks per month is a great living anywhere in a 1st world country apart from the super-high cost of living areas (think Bay area, London, München, etc.)

[RefluxSemantic]

I already mentioned it but I believe there's quite a big difference between self-employed (which is what streamers are) and having an employer. Those employers pay for your insurance and some of the retirement money I believe, at least in the Netherlands and I'd assume things are similar for the rest of Europe at least. Maybe there's someone here that actually knows this stuff, but I'm quite sure equating 3000 bruto for self-employed to a 3000/month salary is just wrong.

[harcha]

yes, but it depends on country by country basis. for example in latvia your employer pays part of social tax even before it's called "bruto". on the other hand taxes on self employed peeps are significantly lower, but you don't get some governmental benefits as a trade-off. then there is the cost of needing an accountant if you're not willing to do all of that stuff yourself.

i heard somewhere that russia is the best country for streaming as the living expenses are very tiny if you don't live in a metropolis and you only pay like 2% in tax [citation needed]

overall while i agree with @aaryngend that you can live off of small number of $$, it also depends on what standard of living the streamer wishes to maintain. if you only want to maintain your streaming and are willing to co-habit your home, then you can get by with small amounts. if you want to keep upgrading your streaming equipment, get an accountant, want to live alone, afford a car, some middle class luxuries and save a small amount, and don't want to settle for a small town in the middle of nowhere, then you're not gonna get by with 900 bruto in eastern europe all that well

[Le Hussard sur le toit]

In France what actually arrives on your bank account is about half of what your employer is paying.

[harcha]

In France what actually arrives on your bank account is about half of what your employer is paying.

same

[lemmings121]

Tomorrow I become a streamer then... In Argentina you can have a nice living with 200 USD , with 500 USD you´re well above the average.
I've been thinking about it for a while but I didn´t know if the revenue was worth pursuing, otherwise I´d just keep playing for my own pleasure.

So true, looking at those numbers, streaming is even more worth it here in south america.
by the tone of this thread, I get that 4300 AUD is "good but no great" for living in Australia, but considering that someone in SA could make the same content and get paid in USD, while spending in reais (or pesos) to make a living, that would be so great.

[Riotcoke]

Honestly I probably need £600 a month to live, so I could live off DrongLows subcount alone

[jesus3]

Honestly I probably need £600 a month to live, so I could live off DrongLows subcount alone

Same. 600€ leaves only little wiggle room, but it's enough here. While it won't be enough in cities like Munich, Berlin or equivalents, it is in other parts of Germany.

[[Armag] diarouga]

How can you live with 600 bucks per month in France or Germany?
Housing is at least 300-400 per month, even outside big cities, and then you have food (10 bucks a day ie 300 per month unless pasta is the only thing you eat), and that's without tax, electricity, buying other stuffs etc.
There is a reason why 1200-1500€ bruto is the minimum wage in some European countries.