Setting the Direction for DE

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United States of America Seamonk
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Setting the Direction for DE

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Post by Seamonk »

So it seems pretty obvious that are a number of people in the community that are unhappy with the direction we're going in on DE. There have been multiple high profile topics on this board sharing general disappointment about the 'new' AOE3. And I agree with a lot of what's being said.

My question is: have people been reaching out to the developers at all to voice these opinions?

On the official forums, there are some of the same general sentiments being shared, but it does not seem like there is much crossover from this forum. There was the big post from Kaiser and some comments here and there from a couple of users, but there seems to be a lack of interest from people on this board. I think this is a huge mistake. Especially while we have an active development team.

I think it would be productive to actively make balance suggestions on the main forums. The current hot takes there do not seem very productive, and there would be a lot more weight in the suggestions from top level players and veterans of the community. I think it's important to explain WHY things are driving people from the community and HOW the developers can fix this. It's one thing to bitch about OP builds in an unaffiliated hobbyist forum. It's another thing for veterans to make suggestions straight on Microsoft hosted, official forums. An example could be directly saying that the Spanish Logistician should not effect CM (and potentially other cards) due to the fact that it arrives in 20 seconds and directly deposits almost everything you need to call a batch directly into your bank. Right now we just have rambling topics between a few mid level players not really achieving anything.

I'm not trying to say discussion isn't useful here. But I think representation in the media that the development team is (hopefully) more likely to see would be beneficial.

Granted, it seems like the language the developers really understand is win rates (see the skull knight rush resulting in a neutered Aztec).

There is also a submit a request form, but I'm not sure balance suggestions are the intended use for it.
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United States of America Squamiger
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Re: Setting the Direction for DE

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Post by Squamiger »

i just said there's a new AoE3, not that i'm disappointed with it. I'm overall quite happy with DE, it's a great improvement over RE
United States of America Seamonk
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Re: Setting the Direction for DE

Post by Seamonk »

I didn't mean to put words in your mouth. I just wanted to grab a catch all to the "that isn't AOE3" sentiment that I've been seeing.
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Re: Setting the Direction for DE

Post by callentournies »

If I were a petal
And plucked, or moth, plucked
From flowers or pollen froth
To wither on a young childā€™s
Display. Fetch
Me a ribbon, they, all dead
Things scream.
United States of America Seamonk
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Re: Setting the Direction for DE

Post by Seamonk »

Yeah, I made this thread after watching this match. But again, developers aren't going to know about these kind of things unless they're talked about on the main forum. I doubt developers are watching Twitch streams late at night, it's just a job.
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India Challenger_Marco
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Re: Setting the Direction for DE

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Post by Challenger_Marco »

Well the new content for DE(USA) and balance patches are definitely going well.

But my pc is too shit to play this game unfortunately.Got 8gb ram which is not enough ,takes 10 mins+ to start the game itself because no SSD and ppl get fed up waiting for me ,laggs when i age up ,commands don't register because of d-sync and server ,shift click bugg & idk how clicking work ,i select vills and click on tc but they instead shoot the hunt below it or something because the commands didn't register it first on tc but on the herd,all these things combined i can't play this game at competitive level. Only can play team games which is more chill.

And for comparison every other games loads superfast,no lagg(CS GO ,dota 2 ,AC Odyssey for eg etc) ,aoe2 de is buttery smooth for me and it's opposite in aoe3 de i really need to have good system to play "aoe3 de" especially.I'm joining the quitter's lobby with kaiser ,rouga etc.Doesn't mean i'm quitting but i'm not interested much.All i can enjoy is consume aoe3 de content ,backseat ,chat on twitch.
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No Flag Astaroth
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Re: Setting the Direction for DE

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Post by Astaroth »

The game is, for the most part, probably better balanced than it has ever been, judging from the diverse civ picks in tournaments. It isn't perfect, but there's no need for doom and gloom.
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Re: Setting the Direction for DE

Post by Peachrocks »

Hmm... does anyone have numbers on the diversity stats? Especially comparing before to now?

Admittedly Iā€™m not so good at judging because Japan poisons my interest in 1vs1 to ridiculous degrees and thatā€™s widely complained about even on the official forums, albeit a lot of people argue itā€™s overpowered rather than too centralising.

I think the doom and gloom largely comes from a similar source to my own albeit presented differently. Things like Sweden, Inca and some other potentially strong things as well as more people being willing to exploit stuff that was always strong but many pro players simply refused to use it/explore it because they understandably didnā€™t consider it fun. I think as well thereā€™s numerous strats and underused things which also fall into this heading, the United States for example has a load of features I donā€™t think are being properly utilised that could become asinine and dominant.

The other issue is that the power of the ability to change the game through discussion here, has gone, which again might lead to feelings of powerlessness and doom and gloom. Game may be statistically more balanced but if itā€™s not more subjectively enjoyable... itā€™s obviously not fun to play. Thereā€™s no accounting for taste.
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Re: Setting the Direction for DE

Post by deleted_user »

I think the current game is not going to any wrong direction, variety is more important than rewarding one playstyle all the time.

Also, the day exiled prince gets fixed, game will reach to it's renaissance enlightenment timeline. ;)
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Switzerland ChewSick
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Re: Setting the Direction for DE

Post by ChewSick »

I understand that some people are unhappy with the changes to AoE. But mostly these are the people who are used to the same playstyle and notice that it suddenly doesn't beat everything anymore.
AoE3 isn't just about mechanics: micro is important, but strategy "doing the right thing" is just as important. And after all this is a strategy game.

And yes, I think we're going into a great direction that semi-ff doesn't just simply beat everything because it's the superior strategy and the one with the best micro wins. I am very happy the game is in its most flexible state it has ever been. And if some players who were very good on RE/EP (without naming anyone) think they don't have to adapt and just keep doing what they always did and rely on their mechanics I just have to say: sorry you are not the best anymore. "Game Skill" does also include the ability to adapt. - If you lack it, you can't grow as a player.

Now don't get me wrong. I hate walls, I hate water. I was always a fan of Wall-limits (e.g. Age2 50 pieces of wall, age3 100 pieces, etc.) or that towers use their "anti ship attack" against fishing boats. But that issue is still the same since RE and EP.
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Argentina Jotunir
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Re: Setting the Direction for DE

Post by Jotunir »

ChewSick wrote:I understand that some people are unhappy with the changes to AoE. But mostly these are the people who are used to the same playstyle and notice that it suddenly doesn't beat everything anymore.
AoE3 isn't just about mechanics: micro is important, but strategy "doing the right thing" is just as important. And after all this is a strategy game.

And yes, I think we're going into a great direction that semi-ff doesn't just simply beat everything because it's the superior strategy and the one with the best micro wins. I am very happy the game is in its most flexible state it has ever been. And if some players who were very good on RE/EP (without naming anyone) think they don't have to adapt and just keep doing what they always did and rely on their mechanics I just have to say: sorry you are not the best anymore. "Game Skill" does also include the ability to adapt. - If you lack it, you can't grow as a player.

Now don't get me wrong. I hate walls, I hate water. I was always a fan of Wall-limits (e.g. Age2 50 pieces of wall, age3 100 pieces, etc.) or that towers use their "anti ship attack" against fishing boats. But that issue is still the same since RE and EP.
But fishing boats are ships...
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Latvia harcha
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Re: Setting the Direction for DE

Post by harcha »

@Seamonk you are right but most people just don't care enough anymore. Eventually DE will be replaced and I will move on to other games.
POC wrote:Also I most likely know a whole lot more than you.
POC wrote:Also as an objective third party, and near 100% accuracy of giving correct information, I would say my opinions are more reliable than yours.
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Re: Setting the Direction for DE

Post by Kaiserklein »

Devs already need to fix all the bugs, plus yeah they nerfed aztecs so you can imagine they're mostly listening to lower level players or checking dumb stats like win rates. Unfortunately I don't think opening threads about balance is gonna be very impactful at all. After all the bug list I made, despite (I believe) having the most likes on their forums, still isn't completely dealt with, more than 6 months later.

Also there's sort of a vocal minority in the community which will go argue that the game is in a good state, that players need to adapt, or that every strat should be viable. Even though probably about 80% of the community hates these strats (some of which exist since 2005...). Just see how many people in this thread are saying something along these lines already. Won't be different on the official forum.

Just wait for aoe4, hopefully it's decent
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LoOk_tOm wrote:I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..
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Argentina Jotunir
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Re: Setting the Direction for DE

Post by Jotunir »

Kaiserklein wrote:Devs already need to fix all the bugs, plus yeah they nerfed aztecs so you can imagine they're mostly listening to lower level players or checking dumb stats like win rates. Unfortunately I don't think opening threads about balance is gonna be very impactful at all. After all the bug list I made, despite (I believe) having the most likes on their forums, still isn't completely dealt with, more than 6 months later.

Also there's sort of a vocal minority in the community which will go argue that the game is in a good state, that players need to adapt, or that every strat should be viable. Even though probably about 80% of the community hates these strats (some of which exist since 2005...). Just see how many people in this thread are saying something along these lines already. Won't be different on the official forum.

Just wait for aoe4, hopefully it's decent
When compared to AOE3 EP, DE fails miserably by delivering an unfinished, buggy and broken game. They do not listen to the community and they do not have any sort of quality control at all.
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Slovenia Javon
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Re: Setting the Direction for DE

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Post by Javon »

What? You believe it's a vocal minority saying the game is good? Because I'd say that ESOC is the game's minority and most of the threads or posts on here disparage the game on here. However most of those posts are made by the same people over and over. So vocal minority on a minor forum is saying the game sucks ass beyond comprehension I'd reckon.
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Re: Setting the Direction for DE

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Post by Kaiserklein »

ChewSick wrote:And yes, I think we're going into a great direction that semi-ff doesn't just simply beat everything because it's the superior strategy and the one with the best micro wins. I am very happy the game is in its most flexible state it has ever been. And if some players who were very good on RE/EP (without naming anyone) think they don't have to adapt and just keep doing what they always did and rely on their mechanics I just have to say: sorry you are not the best anymore.
That's a good example for my post above.

Start by assuming "semi ff" used to beat everything because that's what some clueless people repeated over and over for years until others believed them. Even though at high level on EP you'd see any kind of strat, including very aggressive ones. Can just watch top level EP tourney games and easily see that.

Then pretend the game currently has more variety, despite seeing the same civs and same build orders all the time. With basically every civ having their rush options nerfed and their eco options buffed. Ironically, you currently see way more FFs or semi FFs than ever before...

Finally, if I exaggerate slightly: say former EP top players just can't do anything but semi FF into skirm goon micro. Can't adapt to new strategies, they're just bots. After all, it's not like they've won every single DE event so far :hmm:


So yeah if you go to the official forums and try to argue that the game is more gimmicky, one dimensional, and unfun than ever before. That the level has decreased because top players mainly don't bother playing the game anymore. That the state of balance is actually horrible atm and as a result you see no civ variety... You'll just end up arguing against these flawed arguments that are based on absolutely nothing, the devs just won't be convinced (if they even read it), and nothing will happen
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LoOk_tOm wrote:I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..
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Re: Setting the Direction for DE

Post by Kaiserklein »

Javon wrote:What? You believe it's a vocal minority saying the game is good? Because I'd say that ESOC is the game's minority and most of the threads or posts on here disparage the game on here. However most of those posts are made by the same people over and over. So vocal minority on a minor forum is saying the game sucks ass beyond comprehension I'd reckon.
I said it's a vocal minority in this community, aka ESOC. Just go in twitch chats and see what most people think about DE, I can tell you it's not positive.
Maybe casual players out of the community think the game is great, but that's not really the majority of people who will post on the official forums.
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LoOk_tOm wrote:I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..
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Re: Setting the Direction for DE

Post by deleted_user »

Javon wrote:What? You believe it's a vocal minority saying the game is good? Because I'd say that ESOC is the game's minority and most of the threads or posts on here disparage the game on here. However most of those posts are made by the same people over and over. So vocal minority on a minor forum is saying the game sucks ass beyond comprehension I'd reckon.
This, the self ego boost of a group of dedicated players are more than hilarious, you can easily detect them in every other thread aswell, because they always use "we" "we hate" in a certain way, They think they own the game or their circle is representing the whole game or something,
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Argentina Jotunir
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Re: Setting the Direction for DE

Post by Jotunir »

deleted_user wrote:
Javon wrote:What? You believe it's a vocal minority saying the game is good? Because I'd say that ESOC is the game's minority and most of the threads or posts on here disparage the game on here. However most of those posts are made by the same people over and over. So vocal minority on a minor forum is saying the game sucks ass beyond comprehension I'd reckon.
This, the self ego boost of group of dedicated players are more than hilarious, you might detect them in every other thread because they always use "we" "we hate" in a certain way, They think they own the game or their circle is representing the whole game or something,
How do you know what people think without asking them? There is no convincing evidence that telepathy exists so you are assuming that. Do not let your own prejudices cloud your judgement.
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Re: Setting the Direction for DE

Post by ChewSick »

Kaiserklein wrote:Finally, if I exaggerate slightly: say former EP top players just can't do anything but semi FF into skirm goon micro. Can't adapt to new strategies, they're just bots. After all, it's not like they've won every single DE event so far :hmm:
That's not what I said or meant. I'm just saying that you in particular have a very unhealthy relationship to everything you don't play yourself. That's not just a DE thing but has existed since probably ever. I remember you ranting about Japanese or Water long before DE.
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Re: Setting the Direction for DE

Post by deleted_user »

Jotunir wrote:
deleted_user wrote:
Javon wrote:What? You believe it's a vocal minority saying the game is good? Because I'd say that ESOC is the game's minority and most of the threads or posts on here disparage the game on here. However most of those posts are made by the same people over and over. So vocal minority on a minor forum is saying the game sucks ass beyond comprehension I'd reckon.
This, the self ego boost of group of dedicated players are more than hilarious, you might detect them in every other thread because they always use "we" "we hate" in a certain way, They think they own the game or their circle is representing the whole game or something,
How do you know what people think without asking them?
Basicly same group of guys are trying to manipulate people since years especially on ESO-C, do you think all top players agree with them or something? Trust me that most people who disagree with that group don't even feel bothered to discuss about it anymore because they know how much pointless it is, you always see the card of "we" being used again and again
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Re: Setting the Direction for DE

Post by miggo1999_ »

deleted_user wrote:
Jotunir wrote:
Show hidden quotes
How do you know what people think without asking them?
Basicly same group of guys are trying to manipulate people since years especially on ESO-C, do you think all top players agree with them or something? Trust me that most people who disagree with that group don't even feel bothered to discuss about it anymore because they know how much pointless it is, you always see the card of "we" being used again and again
the only person with whom it's useless to discuss with, is you
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Argentina Jotunir
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Re: Setting the Direction for DE

Post by Jotunir »

I love to watch how theads in this forum degenerate into argumentum ad hominem vs argumentum ad hominem.
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Re: Setting the Direction for DE

Post by deleted_user »

miggo1999_ wrote:
deleted_user wrote:
Show hidden quotes
Basicly same group of guys are trying to manipulate people since years especially on ESO-C, do you think all top players agree with them or something? Trust me that most people who disagree with that group don't even feel bothered to discuss about it anymore because they know how much pointless it is, you always see the card of "we" being used again and again
the only person with whom it's useless to discuss with, is you
Great approach by you as usual, amazing man xD because you don't agree with someone shouldn't give you right to directly attack them I assume?
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Re: Setting the Direction for DE

Post by lordraphael »

ChewSick wrote:
Kaiserklein wrote:Finally, if I exaggerate slightly: say former EP top players just can't do anything but semi FF into skirm goon micro. Can't adapt to new strategies, they're just bots. After all, it's not like they've won every single DE event so far :hmm:
That's not what I said or meant. I'm just saying that you in particular have a very unhealthy relationship to everything you don't play yourself. That's not just a DE thing but has existed since probably ever. I remember you ranting about Japanese or Water long before DE.
how is that any different than ranting about toxic semi ff ?
breeze wrote: they cant even guess how much f***ing piece of stupid retarded they look they are trying to give lesson to people who are over pr35 and know the best mu. im pretty sure that we need a page that only pr30+ post and then we could have a nice discussins.

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