Is Dhaka a competitive map?

[sebnan12]

Who made the map?

[princeofcarthage]

@Mitoe and whats wrong in that? out of 50 maps if one map is somewhat unique its completely fair. Sounds like you are just pissed cuz none of your strong civ is playable on it.

China is strong on Dhaka and that is one of Mitoe's strongest civs.

I am aware but in first post he didnt mention china as viable and in EPL post he said only bit of china so I am assuming he doesn't consider it viable enough or not that great compared to other civs.

[I_HaRRiiSoN_I]

if you move the flag to the middle of the pond you wont have ships despawning. Treasures are random as per any other map with the best treasure maybe 80w by 2 tigers? there are lots of 50coin tiger treasures, its rare to see treasures have as big an affect on dhaka as compared to other maps like florida where there are some monster treasures with the extra flexibility given by the market. and the ship firing speed, well thats an issue with the game itself which affected every map with water

[dansil92]

I used to think japan was quite good on dhaka with good ships, port cons and flaming arrow having an obscene multi vs ships, plus all the berries for the midgame. what changed?

[harcha]

I used to think japan was quite good on dhaka with good ships, port cons and flaming arrow having an obscene multi vs ships, plus all the berries for the midgame. what changed?

flaming arrows are OP vs ships but japan is not really a civ that contests ATP, doesn't do too great vs rushes on small maps and doesn't have a frigate shipment. that being said i'm not sure where it stands on dhaka, but definitely not weak

if you move the flag to the middle of the pond you wont have ships despawning.

if the opponent has ships there already, then you can still get despOWNED

[Mitoe]

Well it is not competitive though. Games being decided by how many of your warships will spawn in the pond, how fast they'll decide to shoot, or how many great treasures spawn on your side, isn't what I'd call competitive

To be fair, ROF with warships isn't random on DE anymore

[Kaiserklein]

Well then it's just gonna be your ships not shooting because the opponent's vel is dancing around, or some stupid bug due to these warships formations. The whole water fighting is buggy af anyway

[Peachrocks]

Well it is not competitive though. Games being decided by how many of your warships will spawn in the pond, how fast they'll decide to shoot, or how many great treasures spawn on your side, isn't what I'd call competitive

That’s a question I wouldn’t mind asking players in general. What does a map in your (and others) opinion need or cannot have in general to be competitive?

I’d honestly like to see how many maps remain after some lists and for once no, this isn’t me complaining about content redundancy. I kinda dislike quite a few maps because of how badly they limit options and nonsense like ships in a pond. I don’t consider New England competitive to be honest and neither is this.

Do agree also that I’d love a significant water rework, like hard core even adding new ships and an actual counter system and boats that yknow fire when something can be fired at even while moving rather then needing to turn stay perfectly still then shoot, but hey game barely works and I still experience numerous bugs with things.

[princeofcarthage]

@Mitoe and whats wrong in that? out of 50 maps if one map is somewhat unique its completely fair. Sounds like you are just pissed cuz none of your strong civ is playable on it.

5712 bullshit post, congrats

Thanks

[princeofcarthage]

@Mitoe and whats wrong in that? out of 50 maps if one map is somewhat unique its completely fair. Sounds like you are just pissed cuz none of your strong civ is playable on it.

stfu

Do you lack any originality that you need to copy someone else?

[Hazza54321]

@Mitoe and whats wrong in that? out of 50 maps if one map is somewhat unique its completely fair. Sounds like you are just pissed cuz none of your strong civ is playable on it.

stfu

Do you lack any originality that you need to copy someone else?

stfu dumb cunt

[princeofcarthage]

Show hidden quotes

@Mitoe and whats wrong in that? out of 50 maps if one map is somewhat unique its completely fair. Sounds like you are just pissed cuz none of your strong civ is playable on it.

stfu

Do you lack any originality that you need to copy someone else?

stfu dumb cunt

@Kaiserklein should learn from hazza tbh

[harcha]

Well then it's just gonna be your ships not shooting because the opponent's vel is dancing around, or some stupid bug due to these warships formations. The whole water fighting is buggy af anyway

don't forget the classic not being able to select your own ships by clicking or not being able to click on the opponents ships. but yeah as long as the first shot time depends on ships turning speed it's still a bit random.

[gibson]

I just spawned it 8 or 10 times and at least half the time there was a big treasure imbalance with 1 side having at least +2 "good" treasures

[n0el]

RNG is good

[kaister]

Treasures aren't even the biggest issue. the right spawn always gets an extra TP pass compared to the left side. The elephants/in base berries don't spawn for one player every 3rd game, tree lines are super weird, with 6 whales the whale spawns are too important to be this inconsistent (can have 2 whales right by docks for 1 player and then 4 in the middle of the sea)

[Scylla-x]

It's a really cool map, have enjoyed watching games on it, very unique.

[I_HaRRiiSoN_I]

stating the obvious here, if a player spawns on dhaka (and for any other map) and does not get all their starting resources, for example 1 of their starting items like the berries, elephant, trees didnt spawn then the players can call for a re without needing permission from other player. The variety of whale spawn locations on all water maps is frustrating

[princeofcarthage]

RNG is good

Without RNG game would be boring honestly

[Kaiserklein]

if you move the flag to the middle of the pond you wont have ships despawning.

Not true, your opponent's ships can prevent yours from spawning, if they just randomly get close to your flag when your shipment comes in. In a small pond where you have warships and possibly even docks, it's pretty likely that some of your ships don't spawn at all, and that's just bad luck.

Treasures are random as per any other map with the best treasure maybe 80w by 2 tigers? there are lots of 50coin tiger treasures, its rare to see treasures have as big an affect on dhaka as compared to other maps like florida where there are some monster treasures with the extra flexibility given by the market.

No, on many maps the treasures spawn in a position where both players can somewhat contest them. On dhaka you get only tier 1 treasures on middle / top, while tier 2 treasures spawn only on each side. So one player might get 100f 80w on his side (or even 5 pop which is pretty good early on) while the other might get only trash on his side.
Florida has so many good treasures that ironically it ends up being sort of fair most of the time. You're almost always gonna find something good.

and the ship firing speed, well thats an issue with the game itself which affected every map with water

It's a much bigger problem here, because pond control is a huge part of winning on dhaka. If your opponent's frigate randomly beats yours and he builds a dock to repair it, he's just so far ahead. On a regular water map, you'll probably be able to pull back your frigate before it dies, or even if it does die, you won't lose all your mapcontrol and half the TP line to that frigate. But yes of course water is fucked overall.
Seeing the state of the game, at the very least we could avoid having maps that emphasize bugs and imbalances in tourneys. It's not like we can rely on the devs to fix the game

[ChewSick]

If your opponent's frigate randomly beats yours and he builds a dock to repair it, he's just so far ahead.

I know this might be off topic, but i think 2 falc vs 2 falc is sometimes also extremely random (when falcs just dont shoot even if in range, etc.). And that might also just immediately lead to a lost game.

[harcha]

if you move the flag to the middle of the pond you wont have ships despawning.

Not true, your opponent's ships can prevent yours from spawning, if they just randomly get close to your flag when your shipment comes in. In a small pond where you have warships and possibly even docks, it's pretty likely that some of your ships don't spawn at all, and that's just bad luck.

i recently did this on a ladder game - saw disciple going to NE pond and back, sent my own frig and put it on the middle of pond. His Fuchuan didn't spawn. (afaik if it's a 1 unit shipment like fuchuan, then you get your spent shipment reimbursed, but if it's a multiple unit shipment then that doesn't work even if all units don't spawn)

[aligator92]

If your opponent's frigate randomly beats yours and he builds a dock to repair it, he's just so far ahead.

I know this might be off topic, but i think 2 falc vs 2 falc is sometimes also extremely random (when falcs just dont shoot even if in range, etc.). And that might also just immediately lead to a lost game.

Completely agree with this. To the point where I would like to see falcs have 201 HP or 99 instead of 100 damage or a 0.9 multiplier vs artillery just so this stops ruining otherwise even games.

[Kaiserklein]

Well in like 95% of cases on legacy, when falcs "bugged" it was because the player mismicroed them. I know the way they pack is very awkward and looks buggy, but it's actually predictable. They'll pack even if the target is barely out of range, if you also have your own units in front (because the game calculates the distance the falc has to walk, and that distance is long because of your units blocking). So usually you could just not have your units right on top of your falcs and/or move your falcs very slightly forward before actually trying to shoot.
So that's not really "random" behaviour, just very awkward. Unlike warships which bring randomness for a variety of reasons mentioned above. Also you can't really prevent falc wars anyway, while you can just not have pond maps in the pool, easy fix.

Now on DE I must say that artillery got much buggier so yeah sometimes your falcs just miss their target even though it was barely moving, shoot blanks, or start packing for no reason. So yeah that's a problem, among many others on this game.
Anyway the whole cannon behaviour should be revamped. It's fine for them to unpack and shoot if you right click a target obviously, but not fine to randomly go 360 when you don't want them to. Just make that toggle manual and be done with it

[Peachrocks]

I’ve wanted the ability to manually toggle Falcs since vanilla. Like trebs in aoe2 are manual, though granted they can’t move at all in fire mode.

Still I find funny that the same company who didn’t want aoe2 samurai to have a bow mode because they were concerned people in a panic would attack a ram and look back to see him uselessly shooting is the same one who made artillery the silly way it is in aoe3.