Introducing the "Play all Civs" challenge

[Jets]

I like this idea, it makes me remember the time streamers were doing the colonial age challenge with every civ.

[CR_Joops]

ok it's been a week of playing nothing but the germans and i gotta say it was pretty brutal, i basically lost most games. a week doesnt seem like enough time to learn a totally new civ.

on to the next civ, which is gonna be Ports I think. will try to get some wins before they nerf CM

I've been playing Germans about a week. Uhlans are trash. WW are trash. Their skirms are trash.

Maybe it won't feel like this when I know how to play them better but atm they feel weak. Very strong age III ships of c but it feels like if you don't win the age III timing push it's GG.

[Peachrocks]

ok it's been a week of playing nothing but the germans and i gotta say it was pretty brutal, i basically lost most games. a week doesnt seem like enough time to learn a totally new civ.

on to the next civ, which is gonna be Ports I think. will try to get some wins before they nerf CM

I've been playing Germans about a week. Uhlans are trash. WW are trash. Their skirms are trash.

Maybe it won't feel like this when I know how to play them better but atm they feel weak. Very strong age III ships of c but it feels like if you don't win the age III timing push it's GG.

Tried mercs? It is random yes, but with the change and rework to some of them there's less chance you get crappy mercs. Germany has a very particular style with its units but yeah their biggest advantage is the uhlan raids, timing push and value for experience so don't forget the church either.

[CR_Joops]

ok it's been a week of playing nothing but the germans and i gotta say it was pretty brutal, i basically lost most games. a week doesnt seem like enough time to learn a totally new civ.

on to the next civ, which is gonna be Ports I think. will try to get some wins before they nerf CM

I've been playing Germans about a week. Uhlans are trash. WW are trash. Their skirms are trash.

Maybe it won't feel like this when I know how to play them better but atm they feel weak. Very strong age III ships of c but it feels like if you don't win the age III timing push it's GG.

Tried mercs? It is random yes, but with the change and rework to some of them there's less chance you get crappy mercs. Germany has a very particular style with its units but yeah their biggest advantage is the uhlan raids, timing push and value for experience so don't forget the church either.

Yeh I can try mercs. Saw some strat a few days back. My ELO has gone down about 200 now anyway so I should be able to win whatever weird strat I try

[Squamiger]

yea playing germany makes me appreciate the semi-ff gang more, its not an easy civ to master and it definitely requires you to outplay your opponents. the units all feel very clunky and awkward but if you finesse them just right they can be very powerful

[CR_Joops]

I think there's a lot of micro required with Germany. If you z-move your uhlans melt to musk, goon, other cav (basically everything) while over on the right flank 12 war wagons all shoot at the same 3HP strelet.

I've been too used to z-moving with Russia and Dutch :(

[Squamiger]

yea definitely. on the other hand, if you micro well, uhlans, dopps and WW all have a huge DPS output that can absolutely delete other armies if they connect onto their counters

[CR_Joops]

@Kaiserklein teach me

[Thrar]

Progress Update - Aztecs

Week 2 with the Aztecs is completed. I ended up playing 20 games (plus practice), but unlike the British where I felt I had some grasp of the civ's core concepts after a week, I still feel pretty lost with Aztecs. After all said and done I've had a 40% win rate (dropping from the 1400s to the 1300s), but only because of a good run on the final day. I don't think I'm in a position to judge the potential of the civ, but what I found is that the skill floor is really high, i.e. it's quite difficult to learn.
It was mechanically challenging, having often 3-4 scouting units, building and managing the community plaza, balancing 3 resources pretty much all game, controlling very micro-dependent units, actively using the war chief but avoiding him die, and so forth. I feel like I've gotten better at age 1 APM because there's just so much to do, perhaps that will help me with other civs as well. Other than that I think I'll need to return to Aztecs in the future and play them for longer to really understand them, but I'm not sure if I'll have the mental fortitude to do it. For now, I'm glad to move on.

Next up will be the USA.

As with Aztecs, I haven't noticed a lot of written or video guides on account of the USA being so new and the meta still shifting. Any advice would be appreciated!


@Squamiger congrats on completing the week with the Germans and good luck with the Portuguese!

[thomasgreen6]

Who else here has never played the majority of civs in multiplayer?

PiroShiki, our lord and saviour

[Squamiger]

@Thrar from my experience, playing team games is a more forgiving and fun way to learn Aztecs, since you have more time to really explore all their options. Also, it sounds like we are about the same ELO, around 1400. We could practice our new civs in some unrated matches if you want. Add me on steam: https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198027772720/

[aligator92]

@Thrar Aztecs indeed take a very long time to get a grasp of (unless you just go for a full rush every game) and even after hundreds of games I sometimes had those games were I just felt completely helpless. So don't worry

[Peachrocks]

United States IMO are OP and if not very strong. It won't surprise me to hear people complain about them in the same capacity they do Sweden in a few months time. People haven't figured them out yet but the aoe3 community can be very slow to pick up on new things or styles simply because they don't find them enjoyable, fair enough.

It's pretty hard though to refute 3 CDB first as this also comes with welcome upgrades but after that is the choice of age 2 state and whether or not to send either Spanish, Dutch or Chinese immigrants. I think Spanish immigrants though is very welcome against Sweden or Japan due to getting cheap pikes that you can send to burn shrines/torps all over the place immediately on age up.

I've seen cases made for all the states except one (the water one). My personal belief is that it depends on the match up or player preference. Obviously the free church and coin trickle is useful, but the 700 food age up not only comes earlier and can less idle time or a better age up time, it also leads to a significant economy boost if you ship German immigrants at some point with all the free mills you can get giving you up to five settler wagons, 50 population space with good line of sight on those mills and a fair amount of fattened cows. Getting the state capital and going oregon trail for free though enables a LOT of building spam getting outposts for cheaper (remembering that you also ignore villager build times) and there's a lot of options from there.

[JKProwler]

United States IMO are OP and if not very strong. It won't surprise me to hear people complain about them in the same capacity they do Sweden in a few months time. People haven't figured them out yet but the aoe3 community can be very slow to pick up on new things or styles simply because they don't find them enjoyable, fair enough.

It's pretty hard though to refute 3 CDB first as this also comes with welcome upgrades but after that is the choice of age 2 state and whether or not to send either Spanish, Dutch or Chinese immigrants. I think Spanish immigrants though is very welcome against Sweden or Japan due to getting cheap pikes that you can send to burn shrines/torps all over the place immediately on age up.

I've seen cases made for all the states except one (the water one). My personal belief is that it depends on the match up or player preference. Obviously the free church and coin trickle is useful, but the 700 food age up not only comes earlier and can less idle time or a better age up time, it also leads to a significant economy boost if you ship German immigrants at some point with all the free mills you can get giving you up to five settler wagons, 50 population space with good line of sight on those mills and a fair amount of fattened cows. Getting the state capital and going oregon trail for free though enables a LOT of building spam getting outposts for cheaper (remembering that you also ignore villager build times) and there's a lot of options from there.

In late team games they just win

[Thrar]

@aligator92 thanks for the encouragement.

@Thrar from my experience, playing team games is a more forgiving and fun way to learn Aztecs, since you have more time to really explore all their options. Also, it sounds like we are about the same ELO, around 1400. We could practice our new civs in some unrated matches if you want. Add me on steam: https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198027772720/

Thank you, I've added you.

As for the US, I've started playing them basically like a semi-FF civ, making some regulars, state militia, or huss in age 2, then going up with the fast age from the state capitol. 54th Massachusetts for the infantry upgrades and 3 gatling guns would usually be my first age 3 shipments. This works passably but feels a bit uninspired, like I'm not playing to the civ's strengths. Is there a better general-purpose (not map or matchup-specific) US strategy?

An issue I was wondering about was, how does the US counter a hand cavalry composition, like skirm/uhlan, skirm/cuir, or arquebus/cav?
There is the dragoon shipment, but that's a one-off, and training dragoons from a fort is too slow against massed cav. Carbine cavalry are widely considered terrible. Regulars lack mobility and die to skirms when trying to engage. US hand cav is lackluster without cav combat. Is there another option, or am I underestimating one of these?

[duckzilla]

I think your assessment on US weakness against hand cavalry is spot on. It is somewhat alleviated by the fact that Militia is the tankiest regular skirm unit similar to Russia and their Strelets.

[aligator92]

I guess Regulars and Gatlings should beat Skirm-Cav. You might want to add a foundry for additional Gatlings at some point for that. Not sure if you can protect yourself from Meteor Hammers though.

[Peachrocks]

Spanish immigrant pikes are an option for anti cav if you are really desperate but State Militia are so strong and fast they can focus fire hand cav in many cases anyway while the cav just bump against each other. I haven’t tested them myself recently but I’ve heard cowboys are actually pretty good. Edit: Yeah, they are decent if you can afford the population space.

In terms of US strengths, it is what you make of it. I gave you my take, however those strengths are very different to anyone else and the style you gave is as you say a little uninspired and very similar to other Europeans. I think you need to find what works for you.

[Squamiger]

Week 2 complete. Ports felt stronger than Germans once I got the basics down, but overall it was a harder experience since it was a big change from my usual playstyle. But I did have some players do meme strats against me and then just resign, bc I think they were just scared of / couldnt be assed to play against Ports. little did they know i had no idea what I was doing!

Next up, Dutch. IK GRAAG (or whatever it is they say)

[dansil92]

classic dutch: build 5 banks, vomit out a continuous spam of units from 4 to 5 buildings. optional: resign when someone ships 2 falcs and your ruyters just tickle them

[Mr_Bramboy]

@Squamiger Have you heard of our lord and savior the 14v Dutch build?

[Squamiger]

@Squamiger Have you heard of our lord and savior the 14v Dutch build?

nope, i don't know any builds. i am like a simple child

[RefluxSemantic]

classic dutch: build 5 banks, vomit out a continuous spam of units from 4 to 5 buildings. optional: resign when someone ships 2 falcs and your ruyters just tickle them

5 banks, die to anyone that does anything to stop you. Wonder why pro players never struggle with this. Give up.

Somewhat more seriously, I believe there's a hidden layer of depth to Dutch that you often don't see or notice. The good players know how to hold off some of the weird aggressive strats or just avoid picking Dutch in those match ups, and then the meta evolves around all the situations where Dutch can be greedy. But these weird aggressive strats often require very specific responses and are sometimes almost impossible to hold off. Fortunately, many mid-tier players just copy what they see others do and thus never try to abuse the Dutch player. I know vs Dutch is by far my best match up, as I know all the tricky strats that you need to respond to in a very specific manner.

[Mr_Bramboy]

@Squamiger Have you heard of our lord and savior the 14v Dutch build?

nope, i don't know any builds. i am like a simple child

Get yourself a coffee and climb the ranks to top 100 within a week

[Squamiger]

oo thats clean. that inspires me to get the builds for all of my civs that clean