Too much ports and sweden in tourneys

[EGCTV]

I love how this is a three page debate whereas all we really need to see is:

Take mams from Sweden and slightly nerf Svea
Slightly nerf Spanish log resource crates
Nerf CM for Ports

And like.... we chill.

How do u feel about the age 2 leather cannon shipment being replaced by 9xbow.

I feel that leather cannon card is the driver of Sweden being able to go full torp boom and get away with it almost all the time

Not sure to be honest. My own view is that Sweden Age 2 isn’t the problem. If you can stop Sweden going 4 they just lose to Japan, Dutch and others. It’s just that Svea + Mams = gg. But hey I suck and pros may not share that view.

[sebnan12]

how can i possibly take this poll seriously without a garja option

Hes new

[aligator92]

If you look at the NWC play in round, which is as close as you get to the RO16 here, the most commonly won with civ was India, which won 6/46 games.

[Squamiger]

French German Brits were played a lot back on EP/RE because they were versatile civs that didn't have any strong weaknesses, meaning they couldnt be easily counterpicked, not because they were god-tier OP like Sweden and Ports are now. This whole idea that the semi-ff was some "I Win Button" strat, and the "semi-ff gang" meme, is just total projection by a few Sweden/Ports players, or a complete misunderstanding. Semi-FF was and is strong, not because it's an I Win button, but because it is very flexible and versatile which means you have to outplay your opponent but you make it hard to counter or anticipate your build.

The old semi-ff meta with Ger/Fre/Brits was super different from how tourneys appear now, and i gotta say it appeared to me as more balanced and fun. for one, it didnt actually involve nearly as many straight vill-700c-700w cav-semi ffs as people claim. there were lots of cheeky age 2 plays and there were a lot of mind games that happened in mid-colonial/early fortress that made the game super interesting

[dansil92]

the most interesting games from the semi ff gang were games against more aggressive civs like france vs sioux or germany vs india. it was good as a viewer to see what the semi ff gang would do to compensate against the early pressure and cheering for some stupid sepoy rush.
this new meta is extremely boring. im kinda low-key happy to see ports and spain have their day in the sun but swedes is absolutely the dumbest thing since vanilla disc release otto. 0 interest in watching any swede game ever

[Squamiger]

the thing is ports and spain were already good. Spain was an S tier civ before lowgistician, and Ports were still S tier on water before the 100xp for TC construction buff happened.

[JKProwler]

I love how this is a three page debate whereas all we really need to see is:

Take mams from Sweden and slightly nerf Svea
Slightly nerf Spanish log resource crates
Nerf CM for Ports

And like.... we chill.

How do u feel about the age 2 leather cannon shipment being replaced by 9xbow.

I feel that leather cannon card is the driver of Sweden being able to go full torp boom and get away with it almost all the time

Not sure to be honest. My own view is that Sweden Age 2 isn’t the problem. If you can stop Sweden going 4 they just lose to Japan, Dutch and others. It’s just that Svea + Mams = gg. But hey I suck and pros may not share that view.

In that case why nit just ban the svea and mams age4 cards for the rest if the tourney?

Will be good to see if these 2 cards are the only problem for sweden

[fei123456]

According to famous SC2 player yellow poison milk, there's a balance between 3 play styles in all RTS games: Aggressive, Stable, Greedy. Aggressive > Greedy > Stable > Aggressive... A balance loop is built.
In old RE patches, aggressive play was the meta; in EP patches, stable play (Brit/French/German) becomes the way. But in DE the rush builds seems to be over-nerfed, making Ports/Dutch/Sweden a bit unstoppable.
Fighting with endless TC and minutemen isn't really better than that against 11/10 sepoy in the old days: at least that didn't waste you so much time.

[speedflyer]

This tournament is pretty much boring to watch tbh , like we change the players and that's basically it , same MU on same map everyday , every series. Even mitoe played port water ?? I've never seen him play this before , atleast in a tourney setting. It's probably one of the first time i just go to another twitch channel when a tourney is online

[harcha]

This tournament is pretty much boring to watch tbh , like we change the players and that's basically it , same MU on same map everyday , every series. Even mitoe played port water ?? I've never seen him play this before , atleast in a tourney setting. It's probably one of the first time i just go to another twitch channel when a tourney is online

IDK man it's fun to me. Also seeing Mitoe learn new civs is cool.

However it is a bit repetitive that every series the maps repeat. But I don't think it would be very fair if each series had a separate map list.

[speedflyer]

This tournament is pretty much boring to watch tbh , like we change the players and that's basically it , same MU on same map everyday , every series. Even mitoe played port water ?? I've never seen him play this before , atleast in a tourney setting. It's probably one of the first time i just go to another twitch channel when a tourney is online

IDK man it's fun to me. Also seeing Mitoe learn new civs is cool.

However it is a bit repetitive that every series the maps repeat. But I don't think it would be very fair if each series had a separate map list.

Idk , for me it's not fun to watch the same MU 3 times in 3 series on the same map ..

[RefluxSemantic]

In some other games, I sometimes really appreciate seeing the same match ups/things multiple times. It helps me understand what's going on, and makes me appreciate how some of the subtle differences in approaches matter.

[economist]

Sweden needs to be weakened further, the Svea Guards and the Infinity 6 Mamluk are too strong, and his 1500 HP villagers (farmhouse).

[gibson]

I dont really care of the mus are the same, nor do I think that should matter for civ rules, but a civ winning 75%+ of its games are too much

[Jets]

You guys really want to see French, Ger, India, Iro games only.

[Hazza54321]

are you seriously suggesting theres nothing inbetween port spain swe only and fre ger only? (not that it was even fre ger only back then anyway). Makes me wonder if some of you even watch/play the same game.

[Realife_Brahmin]

I think this was a boring tourney to watch for me compared to the greatness of NWC and EPL2. There should be an admin enforced lower time limit for the first 'military* interaction' for the first few games at least (like how Tennis championships allow for decisive 7-6 sets in the first four sets). Earlier tourneys had cute hussar micro at around 6:30 mark and often ending by 18 minutes. This tourney has just economic and naval combat shipments and minimal interaction until fortress and industrial ages. Crossing 24 minutes in game time has become the norm. Maybe the pro players like it but I as an audience member find it very dragging.

*Minutemen is NOT military

[Jets]

It is what it is. There's nothing left to do, unless the EP team mods the legacy game, adding sweden, inca and usa and balancing things themselves.