What would we accept as maximum complexity in this game?

[JKProwler]

Connect 4 is too complex, connect 3

[callentournies]

Strangely, connect 2 is simpler yet -- but just Connect, now, that's nearly impossible.

[JKProwler]

It's the paradox of the connect

[aaryngend]

I think this is the "maximum complexicty" we are going to get. Or does anyone think that in a years time they will introduce more civs? I kinda doubt it.

This is it

19 civilizations in total.

[harcha]

unless they decide to remaster the game again in 15 years with a bunch more civilizations and woke ideas

[helln00]

unless they decide to remaster the game again in 15 years with a bunch more civilizations and woke ideas

In 15 years maybe we will have invaded mars so age of empires will just be starcraft

[princeofcarthage]

As I always say, kids, learn the mechanics, learn the concepts and you can play any civilization. If you only learn the civilization, you only learn that civilization.

[Dolan]

Nilla's 8 civs plus TAD's 3 was more than enough complexity. I think TWC civs were not really necessary. Or maybe only Aztecs could have been included and one nilla civ removed (Ottos?).
So 11 civs would have been more than enough complexity, while still allowing a more manageable level of balance.
I don't think the game would have lost much if it didn't have Iros, Sioux and Ottos.

[princeofcarthage]

Sioux and Ottos are actual nice changes to mechanic and gameplay but poorly inplemented

[I_HaRRiiSoN_I]

Ive never played a game as india/inca as i wouldnt really know where to start with the civ. I will trry and give thenew africa civs a good go though while i donate my elo to the ladder upon release

[helln00]

it sort of depends for me what is the complexity that the game has, if the game was just different ways to get more resources and train more units, then tbh I think we can take a few more, Swede and Inca felt a bit like that, I say we can take like 4 more of those

US and the African civs, if they are a bell weather for how other civs will be developed in the future, thats a bit different. We can maybe take 2 more like civs with that kind of difference in mechanic

[jonasnee]

i mean we know we are getting at least 1 more civ, and personally i am hoping for more civs after that.

that said i hope future civs will be less complex, i think the african Civs and even the US to some extend are too complex for the good of the game. both rely exceptionally much on their age up for economic upgrades.

[RefluxSemantic]

When games get more and more complex, it feels harder and harder to make meaningful strategic decisions. What would be the point in spending time figuring out some specific match up when there are thousands of match ups? What's the point of trying to understand how specific build orders interact when there are millions of different BO options. It would just feel like a complete waste of effort. It's also what I've always liked about aoe3, somehow the strategic diversity has always felt limited enough to the point where figuring out specific strategies feels worth it. With each new civ, that aspect of aoe3 is torn down a little bit more.

[chris1089]

Ye it will increasingly make botting 2-3 build orders more profitable and adapting to your opponent less important.

[Squamiger]

thats probably why the best game would just be the original 8 civs with all the DE changes

[deleted_user7]

it's step 1 of turning AoE into a Paradox game

[MCJim]

We have 20 civs now with Mexico as the newest civ, available on December 1st '21.

So 20 civs, too much? Too few?

[Challenger_Marco]

too few tbh in WOL there are 43 civs and they bringing the same concept to DE so might as well include all those civs & have fun balancing xD

[Dolphincup]

One major issue with Africa DLC is that the new layers of complexity are not optional for anybody. If you didn't want to learn Inca, you could still see archers and pikemen and you could know what to do to fight against them using the civs you're familiar with (and now that chimu's are snare-able / the rafts have been tuned down / light cannons can't be bought in age 3 / invisible forts are reveal-able, there really aren't too many terrible surprises with Inca lmao). Against Africa, you get melee-ranged-cav, melee-damage-throwing-ranged-urumi, and resistance-swapping-shield-guys-of-mysterious-type walking into your base at 6 minutes. You have no option to just stick to civs you know and play the game the way you used to play it. Your only options are study the new civs and all 99 of their new bizarre units or go play AoE4, and a lot of people are just choosing the latter. Think this time around, the extra layers of complexity are just too intrusive.

Part of the reason it feels so bad, IMO, is that Africa added complexity by deconstructing the existing rules rather than building upon the existing structure.

Edit: just saw mexico announcement lol. Hopefully this one turns out better. Also kind of hope they stop making new civs, but also want them to keep supporting the game
Maybe they can just put out a bucket for us to put money into once every three months instead?

[jonasnee]

We have 20 civs now with Mexico as the newest civ, available on December 1st '21.

So 20 civs, too much? Too few?

i still hope for more civs, i just hope they go with slightly less complex civs.

like i REALLY wanna see a europeans DLC, and maybe an asian faction or 2 and i think those could be fun and interesting without requiring several attempts to figure conceptually.

like i think china is a great example of a complex faction that is still understandable.

[Garja]

Mexico is a bit of a meme civ. Lot of mechanics are gimmicks.
Also with all the haciendas the base looks quite ridicolous already at 6 minutes. This an issue that other new civs share too. Inca can completely wall off its base with kancha houses and Swedes have clumped base with torps. Even the African civs have this problem because of the granary and livestock market. It's incredibly difficult to path through these civs base on some maps even with your own units.

I understand there is some pressure to add new stuff, either because of marketing or simply the will of devs to show off what they are capable of with the game engine. However the game is taking a direction that doesn't appeal to many (most?) of the players. Who is in charge of the civ developement has to really think about this.

[Challenger_Marco]

Mexico is like Haitians ? where you can revolt when ur age 3 or age 2 after sending the card

[MCJim]

So the complexity of this has been increased again.