Cooperation, is it worth it?
- EliteRifleman
- Dragoon
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Cooperation, is it worth it?
Cooperation is a big button technology available in the trival market, it costs 600 and 600 and is available from the age of Commerce.
It passively provides 0.1 exp / s for each villager created, similar to how Asian villagers generate (besides, it reduces the costs of support shipments by 10% and they arrive 33% faster). My question is, is it worth making this improvement as soon as possible?
I did some math, took some data from the AoE wiki, so I don't know how true they are.
Whereas a TP provides 72 exp / min (without any kind of improvement) , a church provides 42 exp / min (0.7 exp / sec) , the mosque provides 48 exp / min (0.8 exp / sec) and villager gives us 6 exp / min (0.1 exp / sec).
If we do the math, to have an equivalent to a TP, we would theoretically need 12 villagers.
To have the equivalent of a church, we need 7 villagers, and for a mosque, we need only 8 villagers.
If we consider that we must invest 600 of wood in this, which, in theory we could use them to build 3 TPs, which are equivalent to 216 exp / min, we need 36 villagers to have benefits.
The last thing I calculate is how much exp we will get with 99 villagers, we will get 594 exp / min (9.9 exp / sec), which is equivalent to having 8.25 TPs.
Do you think this is worth it? Or is it preferable to invest those resources in something else?
Do not take into account that each support shipment we send, we will save 100 , but that is another matter.
Edit: The technology works for any villager, not just those who are working in the tribal market
PS: If I make a mistake with the maths, please let me know.
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- Howdah
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Re: Cooperation, is it worth it?
could b, sometimes
If I were a petal
And plucked, or moth, plucked
From flowers or pollen froth
To wither on a young child’s
Display. Fetch
Me a ribbon, they, all dead
Things scream.
And plucked, or moth, plucked
From flowers or pollen froth
To wither on a young child’s
Display. Fetch
Me a ribbon, they, all dead
Things scream.
Re: Cooperation, is it worth it?
I think this one worth when you already have 40 villager regardless of age. 40 villager means 4xp/s, and if the total cost is 1200, then 1200/4 = 300s or 5 minutes. Only after that time passed will you get paid off. Lower than 40villager just mean longer time for it to pay off.
Edit: wait, didn't realize that the trickle only work when the villager gathering on that building. Not sound much worth it on silver or copper mine map ?
Edit: wait, didn't realize that the trickle only work when the villager gathering on that building. Not sound much worth it on silver or copper mine map ?
Re: Cooperation, is it worth it?
never cooperate, always antagonize for maximum attention
- EliteRifleman
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Re: Cooperation, is it worth it?
arivus wrote:I think this one worth when you already have 40 villager regardless of age. 40 villager means 4xp/s, and if the total cost is 1200, then 1200/4 = 300s or 5 minutes. Only after that time passed will you get paid off. Lower than 40villager just mean longer time for it to pay off.
Edit: wait, didn't realize that the trickle only work when the villager gathering on that building. Not sound much worth it on silver or copper mine map ?
No, that is an error of the description, the drip works for any villager regardless of what they are doing.
Re: Cooperation, is it worth it?
The description scared me a bit for an expensive techEliteRifleman wrote:No, that is an error of the description, the drip works for any villager regardless of what they are doing.
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- Lancer
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Re: Cooperation, is it worth it?
If you’ve got Akan natives and a Swedish/Finnish or some other ally who can provide more/infinite gold mines maybe. Under realistic circumstances, no.
At that point you might as well use Aztecs with Aztec mining for ridiculous gather rates.
Edit: Oh so it does work for everything? Need to test this more then.
At that point you might as well use Aztecs with Aztec mining for ridiculous gather rates.
Edit: Oh so it does work for everything? Need to test this more then.
Re: Cooperation, is it worth it?
The reason that that BB tech is so useful is you can build 5 tomas, ship 6 and then use the BB to get 5 more. So you get 16 toma very early on.
Re: Cooperation, is it worth it?
there's no way that would be more impactful than just spending 600w 600f worth of villager seconds on tomahawks, or just agingSensei wrote:The reason that that BB tech is so useful is you can build 5 tomas, ship 6 and then use the BB to get 5 more. So you get 16 toma very early on.
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- Howdah
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Re: Cooperation, is it worth it?
Is this unlocked in age 1?
If I were a petal
And plucked, or moth, plucked
From flowers or pollen froth
To wither on a young child’s
Display. Fetch
Me a ribbon, they, all dead
Things scream.
And plucked, or moth, plucked
From flowers or pollen froth
To wither on a young child’s
Display. Fetch
Me a ribbon, they, all dead
Things scream.
- EliteRifleman
- Dragoon
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Re: Cooperation, is it worth it?
callentournies wrote:Is this unlocked in age 1?
From the second age you can make the improvement in the tribal market.
Re: Cooperation, is it worth it?
I generally think it’s not worth it. @kaister uses it sometimes, but to me it just seems too expensive for what it gives you most of the time.
That said, it has its niche. It can be ok on non-TP; a bit slow, but often better than nothing with those civs. It’s also more worthwhile if you are going to FF or especially FI, as the higher value of your shipments means your investment will pay off faster. I doubt it’s ever worth it if you stay in Commerce.
If you are going to get it you should get it somewhat early on. Probably in the first 8 minutes usually. Since shipments get more expensive and xp becomes less valuable the longer the game goes, the BB paradoxically takes longer to pay off the longer you wait (unless you are age 4 maybe), despite having a greater number of villagers to trickle.
That said, it has its niche. It can be ok on non-TP; a bit slow, but often better than nothing with those civs. It’s also more worthwhile if you are going to FF or especially FI, as the higher value of your shipments means your investment will pay off faster. I doubt it’s ever worth it if you stay in Commerce.
If you are going to get it you should get it somewhat early on. Probably in the first 8 minutes usually. Since shipments get more expensive and xp becomes less valuable the longer the game goes, the BB paradoxically takes longer to pay off the longer you wait (unless you are age 4 maybe), despite having a greater number of villagers to trickle.
Re: Cooperation, is it worth it?
What is the formula that gives the cost per shipment, in terms of shipments?
- fightinfrenchman
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Re: Cooperation, is it worth it?
E = mc2chris1089 wrote:What is the formula that gives the cost per shipment, in terms of shipments?
Dromedary Scone Mix is not Alone Mix
Re: Cooperation, is it worth it?
I can’t look it up right now, but I believe the rule is that every shipment is ~15% more expensive than the last, with the initial shipment starting at 330 (Spain starts at 300, Germany at 360). The cost maxes at 2500xp per shipment for all civs—which IIRC happens somewhere between 12-16 shipments into the game.chris1089 wrote:What is the formula that gives the cost per shipment, in terms of shipments?
Don’t quote me on the exact numbers, though.
Re: Cooperation, is it worth it?
So xp cost = 330*(1.15^s) where s represents the nth shipment of the shipment for n<= ~14, 2500 for n > ~14.
Re: Cooperation, is it worth it?
How does it compare to the other two xp sources? the market big button and villagers on the plaza?
Re: Cooperation, is it worth it?
From a rough calculation, I think 15 shipments is the cut-off where xp will always be 2500chris1089 wrote:So xp cost = 330*(1.15^s) where s represents the nth shipment of the shipment for n<= ~14, 2500 for n > ~14.
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- Lancer
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Re: Cooperation, is it worth it?
It’s worth noting that the vill must be working a resource to get the trickle. This means builders, idles and the community plaza do not get anything.
May be worth it for an FI with Lakota if you get old ways which helps a lot of good techs and a few support cards since their time and cost is reduced. Haudenosaunee might be okay as at the very least infinite 1500 res is good but their support cards are mostly awful and no stat boosts.
May be worth it for an FI with Lakota if you get old ways which helps a lot of good techs and a few support cards since their time and cost is reduced. Haudenosaunee might be okay as at the very least infinite 1500 res is good but their support cards are mostly awful and no stat boosts.
Re: Cooperation, is it worth it?
Based off of Mitoe's data above:
330*(1.15^n) = 2500
n*log(1.15) = log(2500/330)
n = log(2500/330)/log(1.15)
n = 14.5 shipments
So for most civilisations, you max out on your 15th shipment. All shipments after your 14th shipment cost 2500 xp.
Substituting 300 for 330 gives that for Spain it's all shipments after your 15th shipment.
Substituting 360 for 330 gives that for Germany it's all shipments after your 13th shipment.
330*(1.15^n) = 2500
n*log(1.15) = log(2500/330)
n = log(2500/330)/log(1.15)
n = 14.5 shipments
So for most civilisations, you max out on your 15th shipment. All shipments after your 14th shipment cost 2500 xp.
Substituting 300 for 330 gives that for Spain it's all shipments after your 15th shipment.
Substituting 360 for 330 gives that for Germany it's all shipments after your 13th shipment.
- EliteRifleman
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Re: Cooperation, is it worth it?
Source: https://ageofempires.fandom.com/wiki/Experiencechris1089 wrote:Based off of Mitoe's data above:
330*(1.15^n) = 2500
n*log(1.15) = log(2500/330)
n = log(2500/330)/log(1.15)
n = 14.5 shipments
So for most civilisations, you max out on your 15th shipment. All shipments after your 14th shipment cost 2500 xp.
Substituting 300 for 330 gives that for Spain it's all shipments after your 15th shipment.
Substituting 360 for 330 gives that for Germany it's all shipments after your 13th shipment.
Re: Cooperation, is it worth it?
Interestingly, this means that (for generic civ) you can make the linear approximation that the k-th shipment costs k*100 Xp, for k = 5, ..., 9EliteRifleman wrote: https://ageofempires.fandom.com/wiki/ExperienceSource:
shimpent no, approx cost:
5, 500
6, 600
7, 700
8, 800
9, 900
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