Least map-dependent civs?

[caladbolg]

Wondering what the least map-dependent civs are in people's opinions. My main civs have always been ottos/ports which are probably some of the most map-dependent. It seems like most civs either interact with water when available, make trading posts in almost every viable build, or are sensitive to low-resource maps.

[onfiregun17]

1) pick japan
2) make yumi & walls
3) ???
4) profit

[Plantinator]

I think japan india and dutch were traditionally seen as the civs that can stay in their base the longest.

[fei123456]

Many civs can stay at home for some time, but Japan is the only one that can win a game.

[Joe]

japan and inca can sit in base super long and still win the game, they are the king of "i just camp and raid a bit (toxic ashi or chimu) and win"
Dutch india and otto need less hunts due to their vils but need food outside of base like any other civs, japan can just send cherrys, and inca food houses does the same, so they just camp in base with stronghold and so on

[Realife_Brahmin]

Japan has no real disadvantage on any map.
Japan is at an advantage if map has many hunts, map has many berries, map is big, map has water, map has two separate water bodies.

[dansil92]

i always consider india the least map dependent civ, they can thrive on pretty much any map

[caladbolg]

I don't think I agree with Japan, which seems to be the most common response. A lot of people use 3 fishing boats in age 1, which is of course only an option on some maps. Also while they don't hunt, they still need enough hunts around to shrine, and the location matters a lot too, e.g. on Araucania most hunts are not far from the attack path, whereas on great plains there's many hunts that if your opponent wanted to kill shrines, he would have to go way out of his way to do so. There's also the question of the number of berry bushes you get... on some maps you get a lot more berry bushes than others.

I somewhat agree with Dutch. I was also thinking Russia's playstyle is pretty map-independent. While they're food heavy on low-food maps they can still grab map control pretty well and it might actually work to their advantage if they're opponent is getting food starved as well.

[Squamiger]

theres civs that mostly need or really like a defensible trade post, which are the most map dependent, in no order:

france
spain
china
haud
germany
otto
lakota
probably ports idk

then theres everyone else. i feel like that's all that really matters in terms of map dependency these days, since maps are so good. sure japan likes maps with lots of berries and brits likes maps with lots of hunts, and swede likes maps with faraway gold mines. but those aren't really things that shift the gameplan of the civ very much. whereas if you're france or china and youre on a no tp map, you gotta really have a plan.

[gibson]

Inca cant really just sit in base forever, japan can though.

[callentournies]

Dutch ngl

[RefluxSemantic]

Dutch greatly benefit from having a second coin mine and at least a starting and second hunt. While of course a third hunt is nice, Dutch doesn't need it is badly as many other civs. They don't need trading posts at all.

Given the fact that the second coin mine and a second hunt are always present, the Dutch don't really care about the map. On low resource maps they aren't as good as some civs that can really get that map control, but they don't suffer as much as some food-hungry civs, and the Dutch are one of the best civs when resources start running out (so the fewer res the map has, the sooner this happens). On no TP maps they thrive. On high resource maps they are still decent. So I'd argue that they are great on all types of maps.

In RE days this was very different. With only one mine, and some crappy second hunt that can hardly be herded back to your base, Dutch was atrocious. They heavily rely on having natural resources available for at least the first ~10 minutes of the game. Back then, they might be one of the civ relying the most on a good map.

[aligator92]

Aztecs can do well on all maps but their play style changes depending on the map.

[Astaroth]

Basically all civs are at least somewhat map dependent, especially in some matchups.

Either you or your opponents play is usually heavily influenced by having tps and/or water.

This also goes for Dutch: on TP maps, they are arguably worse and have to adapt more.

Least map dependent is probably Russia, though. Tp, water or neither, they can do mostly the same and their relative strength is similar, although ofc they are better on no tp.