Public Update Preview - February Update

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Great Britain I_HaRRiiSoN_I
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Re: Public Update Preview - February Update

Post by I_HaRRiiSoN_I »

Le Hussard sur le toit wrote: ↑
26 Jan 2022, 16:47
Kaiserklein wrote: ↑
26 Jan 2022, 15:11
EliteRifleman wrote: ↑
26 Jan 2022, 15:02
Probably a stupid idea, considering they already removed 50f at start
EliteRifleman wrote: ↑
26 Jan 2022, 15:02

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Experience and HP of manors was buffed
Their HP hasn't changed, and the XP bounty is simply adjusted to the new cost. Though the kill XP now being 3x instead of 2x is another (small) nerf for brits.
Isn't 3x kill XP an ep thing ?
Yeah Brits houses yielding 3x for their kill bounty has been in the game for about a year i reckon
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Re: Public Update Preview - February Update

Post by kevinitalien »

Garja wrote: ↑
26 Jan 2022, 19:26
Still waiting for first cattle unit buff for African civs. Aging at 4.40 at best is ridicolous.
african civ are broken why you complain lol
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Re: Public Update Preview - February Update

Post by Garja »

they are ok
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Re: Public Update Preview - February Update

Post by Stepheneaux »

Speaking as a 1 civ Spain main bot spammer who's an average or above player (1500elo) and maybe slightly biased(?), I don't understand the Spain hate. Spanish Gold was already nerfed a whopping 10%. Yes Spain strong on tp maps but not S tier by any means. It's a very map dependent civ with no quartermaster, no exile prince, no economic bonuses, and has multiple decisively bad almost unwinnable MUs especially on no TP maps but even ones with TPs.
Imo, on a TP map Spain is at best A- and on no TP map at best tier but maybe C.... that's my opinion for what it's worth. Thanks for the good discussions, I enjoy perusing these threads.
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Re: Public Update Preview - February Update

Post by kevinitalien »

Stepheneaux wrote: ↑
26 Jan 2022, 21:46
Speaking as a 1 civ Spain main bot spammer who's an average or above player (1500elo) and maybe slightly biased(?), I don't understand the Spain hate. Spanish Gold was already nerfed a whopping 10%. Yes Spain strong on tp maps but not S tier by any means. It's a very map dependent civ with no quartermaster, no exile prince, no economic bonuses, and has multiple decisively bad almost unwinnable MUs especially on no TP maps but even ones with TPs.
Imo, on a TP map Spain is at best A- and on no TP map at best tier but maybe C.... that's my opinion for what it's worth. Thanks for the good discussions, I enjoy perusing these threads.
I think it's more because of their army which is impossible to micro for the opponent and which is just very strong against a lot of civ ( aka rod skirm lancer or rod skirm falc in early game ) and the all in is boring to play (for me)
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Re: Public Update Preview - February Update

Post by Stepheneaux »

Well, skirm rods is strong but I wouldn't say it's stronger than skirm goon, and since Spain is not an eco oriented/ boom civ I'd say having a strong composition is justified.
Lancers are good but get countered by:
1. hand cav 2. light cav 3. heavy infantry.
IMO, it's a hard civ to play well with less room for errors than other civs as its eco doesn't carry them.
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Re: Public Update Preview - February Update

Post by Kaiserklein »

I don't think it's very hard, I mean you can play almost every MU by going for the same build with just a few variations. It's not very hard to micro either with rods involved. Macro is nothing special either, idk
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LoOk_tOm wrote:I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..
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Re: Public Update Preview - February Update

Post by LionHeart »

A nerf to brit feels like a huge buff to Spain
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Re: Public Update Preview - February Update

Post by Stepheneaux »

Seeing as Spain has almost zero chance of winning vs Brits I'd say that's fine. And I'd hardly say +5w manor cost is a big nerf.
Only time I ever win vs Brits is when they don't know how to play the MU and they're 200 elo below me.
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Re: Public Update Preview - February Update

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Post by Kaiserklein »

LionHeart wrote: ↑
26 Jan 2022, 22:21
A nerf to brit feels like a huge buff to Spain
How is it a "huge buff" to spain if 1 out of 19 civs gets a slight nerf? Besides brits will still win the MU anyway lol
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LoOk_tOm wrote:I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..
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Re: Public Update Preview - February Update

Post by EliteRifleman »

I realized that they equated the experience gain of the banks with the experience gain of the kancha houses hahaha

700 res/180 res= 3,88 houses
3,88 houses x 27 exp (exp for a single house) = 105 exp
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Re: Public Update Preview - February Update

Post by I_HaRRiiSoN_I »

now i think some of the reasoning here guys is that bank is half made out of food which gathers nearly twice as fast as wood. its probably not going to be game changing and you can all stop complaining when i lame dutch from now on ;)
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Re: Public Update Preview - February Update

Post by Plantinator »

Garja wrote: ↑
26 Jan 2022, 19:26
Still waiting for first cattle unit buff for African civs. Aging at 4.40 at best is ridicolous.
What annoys me even more is how late i queue my first vill. Like first one goes in queue at 14 sec and its not like with rus where u can work on ur crate split to improve it. As i experienced today for the first time its even worse when playing on a map like rockies and only 3 vills can gather from the cow since its blocked in by trees (resulted in first vill at 18 sec lmao)
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Re: Public Update Preview - February Update

Post by Garja »

Ye actually that's most of the reason the age up is so late. In fact reverting the gathering rate to 2.5 f/s would be ideal, but at least with the first cattle containing 100 more food or so I could age up at 4.40 without idle time.
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Re: Public Update Preview - February Update

Post by a forum ghost »

Honestly the only difficulty that I found out playing Spain is that they use a lot of different types of units and sometimes there are a lot of control groups that you might have to deal with it.

For example, if I age up with 8 xbow, I don't want to mix them with skirmishers because of the difference in range.
If I age up with hussars or ship them, I don't want to mix them with lancers because they are different types of units.
If I ship the 12 pikes on age 3 (I prefer this card over 8 rods despite generally not having vet upgrade, because in some games I feel like I need siege damage. But it seems to me that very few Spanish players have 12 pikes in deck) they probably also need their control group to not slow down the rods.
I also need control groups for the dogs so they don't slow the cav down, or the hand infantry slow them down.
And I generally have another control group for missionaries when I get them.

So it's quite common that during a Spain game I have 4-6 control groups of units of some mix between huss, lancers, dogs, rods, pikes, xbow, skirms and falcs.
I probably could narrow down by grouping the dogs with melee cav/hand infantry, and stop sending 12 pikes. But I don't know, it's just the way I like to play.

Other thing that is annoying to Spain is the increasing amount of non TP maps on the ladder map pool lately. I believe at the moment we have Pampas Sierras, Gran Chaco, Cascade Range, Alaska, Siwa Oasis and this new Lake Victoria map.
And I never really know what to do on those maps. I generally just go for 3 vils -> 300 wood on age 1 and proceed to spam age 2 units and fight as often as possible so I gain some experience for the next shipments.

I don't know if this is the optimal way to play Spain on non TP map, but I'm just being guided by a build order that I saw Aiz doing a while ago.

The game I'm referring to
Stepheneaux wrote: ↑
26 Jan 2022, 21:46
Spanish Gold was already nerfed a whopping 10%.
Yeah, that was a weird change to say the least. I remember that they nerfed Spanish Gold together with Logistician when he was being problematic.
To me they could have deleted the whole Logistician, but kept the Spanish gold intact.
Why they took out 40 gold of the Spanish gold?

Only logical reason that I could think is that they want to have make Spain have to ship a 5/6° shipment on age 3 if you want do that semi-FI pike/crossbow build order that was in vogue some months ago.
(In short this is the build as I'm referring too: Do a normal FF, but on age 3 put vills only on food and wood to spam xbow/pikes, send Spanish gold, and use shipments to complement unit composition. When you have the vet upgrades + 800 gold from the Spanish gold income send 1000 food and go industrial with the politician with guard upgrades to xbow/pike. Get the guard upgrade to xbows and ship 24 xbows, and with the gold from that shipment get tercio upgrade and send 24 pikes).

This nerf makes you ship a extra age 3 shipment before sending 1000 food and clicking up.
But I don't why would you nerf that, since the build was sort of bad since more often than not you were fighting skirmishers with xbow on age 3.
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Re: Public Update Preview - February Update

Post by richard »

a forum ghost wrote: ↑
27 Jan 2022, 00:38
Honestly the only difficulty that I found out playing Spain is that they use a lot of different types of units and sometimes there are a lot of control groups that you might have to deal with it.

For example, if I age up with 8 xbow, I don't want to mix them with skirmishers because of the difference in range.
If I age up with hussars or ship them, I don't want to mix them with lancers because they are different types of units.
If I ship the 12 pikes on age 3 (I prefer this card over 8 rods despite generally not having vet upgrade, because in some games I feel like I need siege damage. But it seems to me that very few Spanish players have 12 pikes in deck) they probably also need their control group to not slow down the rods.
I also need control groups for the dogs so they don't slow the cav down, or the hand infantry slow them down.
And I generally have another control group for missionaries when I get them.

So it's quite common that during a Spain game I have 4-6 control groups of units of some mix between huss, lancers, dogs, rods, pikes, xbow, skirms and falcs.
I probably could narrow down by grouping the dogs with melee cav/hand infantry, and stop sending 12 pikes. But I don't know, it's just the way I like to play.
4-6 control groups with spain? I thought you could just train few falcs, put them together with everything what you get from shipments, age up etc plus dogs plus explorer, drag box and then attack move everything.
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Re: Public Update Preview - February Update

Post by a forum ghost »

Yeah, there is a very likely possibility that I'm just overcomplicating things and making my life harder. I probably could make my life easier by just bunching up pike-rods-dogs all in the same group, having skirms/xbow in another, cav in a another and maybe some falcs in a 4° if I happen to have all those units. Explorer I can always use ; and double tap the control group or select group + space to find it to relock the screen.

But c'mon, I refuse to just dragbox and z move everything. I have the aspirations of be a least a decent player one day.
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Re: Public Update Preview - February Update

Post by Stepheneaux »

Yeah, no.
You don't just z move with Spain and hope to win. If you lose your falcs you are finished, done.
I lump xbow and skirms together with the dogs bc the dogs tank enemy skirm fire, but I usually have 4 control groups.
And yes, Spain's FI capabilities have been overly nerfed. Spain's papal guard politician was too strong but was overly nerfed, having to pay for vet and guard (discounted) and having zero tempo upon reaching industrial which at that point the enemy is usually sieging your base, while other euro civs still have the free guard xbow pike upgrades...
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Re: Public Update Preview - February Update

Post by Garja »

Wait, other civs still have free guard ups?
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Re: Public Update Preview - February Update

Post by Stepheneaux »

You might want to double check but I'm pretty sure because I was talking with a French main on reddit who mentioned his is still free.
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Re: Public Update Preview - February Update

Post by helln00 »

apparently for spain xbow is free, pike is not, which tbh I can kinda argue that its ok since you are paying for a royal guard upgrade.

swede does get their royal guard for free but they never use it and they don't get guard xbow either.

I can see it being moved around in the future
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Re: Public Update Preview - February Update

Post by Plantinator »

Garja wrote: ↑
26 Jan 2022, 23:18
Ye actually that's most of the reason the age up is so late. In fact reverting the gathering rate to 2.5 f/s would be ideal, but at least with the first cattle containing 100 more food or so I could age up at 4.40 without idle time.
Hmm I actually think the african civs are still pretty strong except from their slow start. So we should buff only their age 1 imo.
The two options i see are:
1) give them a starting cattle that is collected faster then the standard ones
2) just make them start with like 20 food in the bank. That would probably be the less complicated option.
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Re: Public Update Preview - February Update

Post by LionHeart »

Kaiserklein wrote: ↑
26 Jan 2022, 22:25
LionHeart wrote: ↑
26 Jan 2022, 22:21
A nerf to brit feels like a huge buff to Spain
How is it a "huge buff" to spain if 1 out of 19 civs gets a slight nerf? Besides brits will still win the MU anyway lol
the one civ that counters them happens to almost be one of the most played civs, yeah thats huge on qs. The dutch MU will also be even more of a joke now, plus inca nerfs, spain going to be in an incredible spot next patch.
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Re: Public Update Preview - February Update

Post by Kaiserklein »

LionHeart wrote: ↑
27 Jan 2022, 16:51
Kaiserklein wrote: ↑
26 Jan 2022, 22:25
LionHeart wrote: ↑
26 Jan 2022, 22:21
A nerf to brit feels like a huge buff to Spain
How is it a "huge buff" to spain if 1 out of 19 civs gets a slight nerf? Besides brits will still win the MU anyway lol
the one civ that counters them happens to almost be one of the most played civs, yeah thats huge on qs. The dutch MU will also be even more of a joke now, plus inca nerfs, spain going to be in an incredible spot next patch.
This is just bullshit honestly. Like I said brits will shit on spain regardless of that small change lol. Just like dutch vs spain was unwinnable for dutch anyway already. It doesn't really change anything
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LoOk_tOm wrote:I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..
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Re: Public Update Preview - February Update

Post by Garja »

Brits don't shit on Spain imo, but Spain is nowhere near a counter to Brits nor will be a big deal because of some unrelated changes.
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