Let’s try to get AoE3 to the redbull!

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Monaco redrocket
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Re: Let’s try to get AoE3 to the redbull!

Post by redrocket »

Sad people can't think ahead or even outside of the box.
Let's be real, outside of aoe very small amounts of people from the world or especially the newer generation are gonna open up the wololo stream and look at aoe2 or aoe1 and think "oh wow, what a beautiful looking game, these outdated pixelated 2D lookin ass graphics and textures are so cool for an rts game in 2022, rts games are soo cool lemme play this" They gonna think wtf is this 1990 bullshit. The redbull tournament is gonna be great mostly for all the aoe2 fanboys that cannot expand their mind, these types of low risk safe, pussy moves from big organisations is one of the reasons why rts games have such low playerbases in general when compared to other games. Like imagine trying to get someone into rts when they legit think every game is like aoe 2 or aoe 1 because is the type of bullshit they LOOOVE advertising..................Need to stop putting boring shit on the frontpage to please the cult and do something actually interesting. Aoe2 and aoe1 & redbull etc are all like old politicians in power that hold the world back. Hopefully aoe 4 will look great for newer viewers but perhaps free these delusional people from their mental prison.
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Re: Let’s try to get AoE3 to the redbull!

Post by iNcog »

SongOfStorm wrote:
09 Jun 2022, 15:20
Masmorra's interview with Will McCahill came out. Mostly focused on Aoe 2 and 4, but there's a section near the end where he asks why AoE 3 isn't in Red Bull.
The link is to the timestamp for AoE 3, it's about 2-4 minutes long. I'll let Will talk for himself.


The full interview itself is interesting, talks about Worlds Edge, the Vietnam community for AoE:RoR, the Definitive Editions and more. So worth a listen for sure!
Tbh high level aoe3 players aren't pros so running a professional tournament doesn't really do much. That, and honestly the high level aoe3 scene isn't what it used to be. Partially because of whack-ass design changes, imo. It's quite sad that aoe3 gets sidelined but I guess if you just sit down and think of it, it makes sense. I don't know. I'm curious as to what other aoe3 people think regarding this because that guy's answer really didn't have a ton of meat and potatoes.
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/incog_aoe
Garja wrote:
20 Mar 2020, 21:46
I just hope DE is not going to implement all of the EP changes. Right now it is a big clusterfuck.
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Re: Let’s try to get AoE3 to the redbull!

Post by Garja »

AOE3 just has what it deserves.
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Re: Let’s try to get AoE3 to the redbull!

Post by callentournies »

I dont want Will McCahLOW running an age3 tournament anyways red bull is a gateway drug nadeshot pushed broken with a pistol
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Re: Let’s try to get AoE3 to the redbull!

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Post by look »

I'm sure we would see at least several old faces coming back for this tournament.
which would make the game very competitive.
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Post by Guigs »

iNcog wrote:
10 Jun 2022, 00:23
SongOfStorm wrote:
09 Jun 2022, 15:20
Masmorra's interview with Will McCahill came out. Mostly focused on Aoe 2 and 4, but there's a section near the end where he asks why AoE 3 isn't in Red Bull.
The link is to the timestamp for AoE 3, it's about 2-4 minutes long. I'll let Will talk for himself.


The full interview itself is interesting, talks about Worlds Edge, the Vietnam community for AoE:RoR, the Definitive Editions and more. So worth a listen for sure!
Tbh high level aoe3 players aren't pros so running a professional tournament doesn't really do much. That, and honestly the high level aoe3 scene isn't what it used to be. Partially because of whack-ass design changes, imo. It's quite sad that aoe3 gets sidelined but I guess if you just sit down and think of it, it makes sense. I don't know. I'm curious as to what other aoe3 people think regarding this because that guy's answer really didn't have a ton of meat and potatoes.
There aren't any pros because there's no competitive scene/decent cash prizes to push top players to grind let's be real.
The game wasn't competitive when it got released as well...
I agree that the overall level is worse than let's say 2018 ep.
Regarding the interview, well you heard it there's no audience for this game.
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Re: Let’s try to get AoE3 to the redbull!

Post by Goodspeed »

look wrote:
10 Jun 2022, 08:13
I'm sure we would see at least several old faces coming back for this tournament.
which would make the game very competitive.
Except as soon as anyone starts actually pushing the limits, it will become glaringly obvious that the game is too broken to be competitive. There's no way it's not, after this many patches and new civs with no competitive scene to speak of to properly test them.

It's interesting that they included AoE1 tho. Don't really see that getting enough viewers to justify it
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Post by Guigs »

Goodspeed wrote:
10 Jun 2022, 12:27
look wrote:
10 Jun 2022, 08:13
I'm sure we would see at least several old faces coming back for this tournament.
which would make the game very competitive.
Except as soon as anyone starts actually pushing the limits, it will become glaringly obvious that the game is too broken to be competitive. There's no way it's not, after this many patches and new civs with no competitive scene to speak of to properly test them.

It's interesting that they included AoE1 tho. Don't really see that getting enough viewers to justify it
I guess they don't mind as it's gonna be hosted in Vietnam by a local tournament organiser.
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Re: Let’s try to get AoE3 to the redbull!

Post by Goodspeed »

Ah in that case it probably will get the viewers to justify it. Makes sense then
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Re:

Post by iNcog »

Lecastete wrote:
10 Jun 2022, 09:24
iNcog wrote:
10 Jun 2022, 00:23
SongOfStorm wrote:
09 Jun 2022, 15:20
Masmorra's interview with Will McCahill came out. Mostly focused on Aoe 2 and 4, but there's a section near the end where he asks why AoE 3 isn't in Red Bull.
The link is to the timestamp for AoE 3, it's about 2-4 minutes long. I'll let Will talk for himself.


The full interview itself is interesting, talks about Worlds Edge, the Vietnam community for AoE:RoR, the Definitive Editions and more. So worth a listen for sure!
Tbh high level aoe3 players aren't pros so running a professional tournament doesn't really do much. That, and honestly the high level aoe3 scene isn't what it used to be. Partially because of whack-ass design changes, imo. It's quite sad that aoe3 gets sidelined but I guess if you just sit down and think of it, it makes sense. I don't know. I'm curious as to what other aoe3 people think regarding this because that guy's answer really didn't have a ton of meat and potatoes.
There aren't any pros because there's no competitive scene/decent cash prizes to push top players to grind let's be real.
The game wasn't competitive when it got released as well...
I agree that the overall level is worse than let's say 2018 ep.
Regarding the interview, well you heard it there's no audience for this game.
When I said there were no pros I meant that no one can just sit down and play the game full time and make a living. Unlike AOE2 / AOE4. Unless it was maybe Interjection but that wasn't a pro player. Aussie Drongo did it for a bit as well. Only content creators can really do it.
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/incog_aoe
Garja wrote:
20 Mar 2020, 21:46
I just hope DE is not going to implement all of the EP changes. Right now it is a big clusterfuck.
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Re: Let’s try to get AoE3 to the redbull!

Post by Adribird »

Possibly (and only possibly) the fact of simplifying the game further at the competitive level should be considered and, to this end, give up a certain part of the identity of the game to make it more understandable and playable.

AoE3 needs to be understood by players outside of AoE3 and I only see that possible by reducing the number of unique units (merc, outlaws, natives...), maps and limiting the number of cards in the game (and perhaps accepting a limited number of civilizations). Not to mention that the old Eso-C patch system would make it easier to understand what's going on in the game.

It is somewhat controversial, but perhaps we have to think beyond what we like and think more about what other viewers may like.

P.S: And aggressive word of mouth marketing.

Think about it.
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Re: Let’s try to get AoE3 to the redbull!

Post by FellFresse »

Especially after TAD most of new stuff introduced and balanced was bullshit and meme gimmick stuff. They killed the last competetive scene with that. Balance around 2018 ep was kinda fine. No revival for that game in sight.
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Re: Let’s try to get AoE3 to the redbull!

Post by leg[] »

redrocket wrote:
09 Jun 2022, 21:51
Sad people can't think ahead or even outside of the box.
Let's be real, outside of aoe very small amounts of people from the world or especially the newer generation are gonna open up the wololo stream and look at aoe2 or aoe1 and think "oh wow, what a beautiful looking game, these outdated pixelated 2D lookin ass graphics and textures are so cool for an rts game in 2022, rts games are soo cool lemme play this" They gonna think wtf is this 1990 bullshit. The redbull tournament is gonna be great mostly for all the aoe2 fanboys that cannot expand their mind, these types of low risk safe, pussy moves from big organisations is one of the reasons why rts games have such low playerbases in general when compared to other games. Like imagine trying to get someone into rts when they legit think every game is like aoe 2 or aoe 1 because is the type of bullshit they LOOOVE advertising..................Need to stop putting boring shit on the frontpage to please the cult and do something actually interesting. Aoe2 and aoe1 & redbull etc are all like old politicians in power that hold the world back. Hopefully aoe 4 will look great for newer viewers but perhaps free these delusional people from their mental prison.
While I think aoe2 is tedious and has tons of flaws people don't tend to see, and overplay it, its modability extended its lifespan. But I think you are really wrong in assuming most people aren't stupid.

They've rebought AoE2 2 or 3 times, the 2nd one (HD) including some dlcs, latest one (DE) being a 'modded visuals/audio' version, some people actually unnecessarily buy the dlc (which are akin to free mods, like the ones always found at aok.heavengames.com), and they're poised to continue doing it. Granted, you won't generally find anyone smart enough other than a very rare group who can sync up mods to play a match online and have fun with it. So in a way modded AoE2 which is what AoE2DE is, and of course, replacing all the 2d textures and most/all the sounds, plus the occasional DLC, enables them all to have different visuals/audio over the same exact game, and to sync the game in a way like it has many mods added to it but that is how the game is pre-packaged; so no additional things needed. I think it's shown to be a beautiful graphical style, not just some 90s crap, that scales because of it's simplicity and good looks. You can still see today terrible looking games that use the latest rendering products and they still end up a mess in 2d/3d, not anywhere as clean or good looking; if not have you even peeked at some of the more extensive custom maps and design contests people have made? Yes it's 'fake 3d' or actually 2d but it's still art.

That being said, most of their changes are literal mods, even the AI improvements, they basically just put mods into the aoe2 engine that already were present for years and combined them into one package lol. But people do buy it. And I do think it's beautiful in its own way (clearly so do other people), even though the gameplay is flawed especially in the time taken to do repetitive actions. Even so that's the reason I refunded DE after winning a match because it was the same exact game, but broken backwards compatibility, and maybe visual mod but the units/games literally the same. You'd generally get it only because 'thats where most of the players are' etc. because they are not ever thinking they were tricked but instead view it as like an advancement.

Yes AoE1 is way too old and flawed. AoE2 is flawed in many ways, I admire anyone who is dumb enough to repetitively play 30-40 minute games and spam out 90 villagers, castle age, get tc, almost same for almost each and every game, yet you see some of them are weirdos with 1000 games and 50% winrate or they just generally enjoy to never make progress at all; the perfect brainless consumers. Clearly times could be cut down to half- as Age of Mythology and Age of Empires 3 showed, but people are still dumber than you think and will rebuy AoE, if there's a DE2 for a cash grab, I believe they'd buy it again, (even if as DE did, it broke backwards compatibility with literal decades of mods in 1 swipe, yet they still got people to switch to essentially a 'mod' that swapped out the 2d textures and made audio changes). AoE3 is flawed in many ways too but is still imo better than the new devs who made that mess called AoE4 which turned out to be a classic bait-and-switch sell the name AoE and most people buying it thought it was the 'next AoE', when in reality it was more like a standalone failed RTS game made by a new studio. I believe a rework of AoE3's engine would have worked better and does work better regardless of its flawed card system and oddities, than anything that Relic has made for AoE4 which was a failure. The way Ensemble made rifles and all of this work in AoE3, with ability to do a few pathways, is miles ahead in game design than the flawed artillery spam they added in AoE4, where generally there's just 1 way or deviating puts you at a disadvantage. Imo Aoe4 would have been better off as an april fools prank that redirected people to play Aoe3 and if Relic spent the time adding a ton of dlc civs and fixed the fps lag on large battles. That being said AoE2 was always beter than AoE4 and still is, Aom/Aoe3 are just on their own tier and were fairly good.
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Re: Let’s try to get AoE3 to the redbull!

Post by nimanoe »

redrocket wrote:
09 Jun 2022, 21:51
Let's be real, outside of aoe very small amounts of people from the world or especially the newer generation are gonna open up the wololo stream and look at aoe2 or aoe1 and think "oh wow, what a beautiful looking game, these outdated pixelated 2D lookin ass graphics and textures are so cool for an rts game in 2022, rts games are soo cool lemme play this" They gonna think wtf is this 1990 bullshit.
I think the main target isn't the newer generation, but rather the "older" generation, who've played this game before and now realize they can still play an updated version of it. So instead of "this 1990 bullshit" being a bad thing it's rather a nostalgia hit.
leg[] wrote:
10 Jun 2022, 18:52
That being said, most of their changes are literal mods, even the AI improvements, they basically just put mods into the aoe2 engine that already were present for years and combined them into one package lol. But people do buy it. And I do think it's beautiful in its own way (clearly so do other people), even though the gameplay is flawed especially in the time taken to do repetitive actions. Even so that's the reason I refunded DE after winning a match because it was the same exact game, but broken backwards compatibility, and maybe visual mod but the units/games literally the same. You'd generally get it only because 'thats where most of the players are' etc. because they are not ever thinking they were tricked but instead view it as like an advancement.
I feel like you've left out the most important change with DE: the dedicated servers. At least for the competitive community that's why they switched to DE and didn't stay on Voobly. Having the lag reduced tremendously is huge.
For the casual/single player base you're kinda right, it's mainly a visual overhaul and new content that you'd also be able to get with mods, but there's also the factor that it's available on Steam, which makes playing the game so much easier. You can see it with the player numbers of the HD edition, which is inferior in every way to playing on Voobly, but still has higher player numbers.
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Re: Let’s try to get AoE3 to the redbull!

Post by iNcog »

FellFresse wrote:
10 Jun 2022, 16:22
Especially after TAD most of new stuff introduced and balanced was bullshit and meme gimmick stuff. They killed the last competetive scene with that. Balance around 2018 ep was kinda fine. No revival for that game in sight.
Yeah I think that was peak aoe3 balance and honestly just such a fun / nostalgic game to play.
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/incog_aoe
Garja wrote:
20 Mar 2020, 21:46
I just hope DE is not going to implement all of the EP changes. Right now it is a big clusterfuck.

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