Update 13.10442

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Argentina EliteRifleman
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Update 13.10442

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Re: Update 13.10442

Post by Garja »

Just read the notes and I think people are just providing wrong feedbacks for balance. Does it come from the official forums?
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Re: Update 13.10442

Post by Riotcoke »

@Garja Thoughts?
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Serbia ShinkuroYukinari
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Re: Update 13.10442

Post by ShinkuroYukinari »

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
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Re: Update 13.10442

Post by Garja »

Riotcoke wrote: ↑
07 Jun 2022, 18:00
@Garja Thoughts?
I mean kinda overnerfing African civs. After last round of nerfs they were already ok. They are even nerfing their start which is bad compared to all the other civs in the game.

Other than that I think dev overreacted on people feedback about Italy and Malta. Overnerfing certain things like the strad+bosniak card (which was fine at 4+4 with Bosniak nerfed) or the lombard xp trickle (I assume from treaty feedback). Marco Polo card moved to age2 (ye it was good in team but it has to compensate for 3v and in age2 it's kinda useless).

Malta changes are fine I guess (I mean they make sense) but they go to show devs consider Malta on the weaker side when the civ has in fact more defined and solid strats than Italy (which is basically a "do reasonable stuff and adapt hoping to outplay the opponent" civ).

Merchant Republics card is still mediocre because it takes too long to pay off. It should grant a minimal cost discount just to net resource immediately, especially since both Malta and Italy can't send it as a 2nd card in age1 like other civs can with ATP or Silk Road.

Merc/outlaw/natives changes I guess all make sense but also seem very reactive to people feedback because the stat tweaks are quite significant.

@Riotcoke
EDIT: I didn't see the screenshot (somehow thought it was part of your signature). Pretty dumb change if you ask me. There is no reason whatsoever to change that except for some random player complaining about it (probably lost to it and/or saw the AK+ERK strat in qs and thought it was OP).
In fact there is no design reason to change it (the WP is infantry and should be affected by it), nor balance reason since 10WP boom strats are just better off with the 3WP card (fencing school only speeds up WC revival).
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Re: Update 13.10442

Post by EliteRifleman »

I liked most of the changes, but what they did to Ethiopia has no name, it was destroyed. I have no doubt that from now on it will be the weakest civilization in the game.
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Re: Update 13.10442

Post by DragonFruit »

Leonardo's Tank now takes 22 imperial culverin shots to kill lol but had it's range nerfed to 18

Edit: I forgot how culv upgrades work so it actually takes 25 imperial culv shots.

The tank is 3500 hp, 50% ranged/melee/siege resist, 5.25 speed, 18 range, 75 attack with 2 rof and 3 aoe with negative cav/artillery multipliers
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Re: Update 13.10442

Post by Joe »

Hausa changes are very good imo
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Re: Update 13.10442

Post by Scylla-x »

Lowering german tongue by only 50w for malta seems a joke, it needs to cost a max of like 350w.

Expected a small buff to sentinels base stats, the buff to late game card is all good but they remain quite poor early on.

Commanderys still remain too expensive, the auberges card now only increases pop by 10 and makes order units 10% cheaper, good for treaty perhaps but won't be used in 1v1.

Surprised the lombards were nerfed and not buffed slightly.

I see they've killed the african civs off entirely now too, who asked for yet more nerfs.
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Re: Update 13.10442

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Post by MCJim »

"This one is smaller than usual"

Lol this is still a lot. Thanks devs!
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Re: Update 13.10442

Post by Garja »

Scylla-x wrote: ↑
07 Jun 2022, 18:59
Lowering german tongue by only 50w for malta seems a joke, it needs to cost a max of like 350w.

Expected a small buff to sentinels base stats, the buff to late game card is all good but they remain quite poor early on.

Commanderys still remain too expensive, the auberges card now only increases pop by 10 and makes order units 10% cheaper, good for treaty perhaps but won't be used in 1v1.

Surprised the lombards were nerfed and not buffed slightly.

I see they've killed the african civs off entirely now too, who asked for yet more nerfs.
450w and 40 secs does the trick. Now you can do the German tongue strats effectively. Plus the commanderie wagon builds faster. The auberges change does not improve the card for supremacy but the card wasn't viable anyway, so nothing is really lost. If anything it might be a decent lategame card.
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Re: Update 13.10442

Post by LazarosVas »

Perfect changes
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Re: Update 13.10442

Post by PatrickLFC »

This seems like the most sensible set of balance changes in a while (although huaraca could still do with a nerf) - excited to see what game breaking bug comes along with it
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Re: Update 13.10442

Post by Zeus »

Lol the African civs are the new "Spain" ... they get nerf after nerf every updates, feel bad for the people that play them. Overall kinda liked that Malta received a few buffs.
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Re: Update 13.10442

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Post by Thrar »

Looks pretty good to me overall. I haven't played Italy and Malta much but from playing against them the Bosniak nerf seems to be warranted. Good to see that they're already addressing some of the new mercenaries/outlaws that we discussed here too.

I don't see anything obviously wrong with the African changes. Adding 3v to Hausa is a buff to their opening while the shipment XP and reduced cattle are nerfs to early timings and the long game which seem reasonable. The Lifidi change is more of an adjustment than a straight nerf, they tank less but do a comparable amount of extra damage and they're still tanky enough to fill their role.
As for Ethiopia, the monastery/abun buff is worth 2 extra villagers in early age 2 if you're building 2 monasteries (one in age 1, one in transition) and train abuns after reaching age 2, and you're saving 40w too. Again it's a timing nerf (2v pay off more slowly than selling a cow) but not much of a long-term change.

Fencing school WP was perhaps not needed for balance purposes, but it's very annoying to play against since those WP tank a lot and even if you're taking some of them out the Aztec player can bring them back very quickly. As Garja says the WP boom build usually doesn't use fencing school but 3 WP instead so it shouldn't change too much there, it's just a nerf for the long game to allow for more effective counterplay.

I'm curious about the Native Lore change. Were there some royal house techs with a high coin cost that made this too strong or is this meant to be a buff? I haven't had this card on my radar at all.
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Re: Update 13.10442

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Post by PatrickLFC »

Thrar wrote: ↑
08 Jun 2022, 00:27
Looks pretty good to me overall. I haven't played Italy and Malta much but from playing against them the Bosniak nerf seems to be warranted. Good to see that they're already addressing some of the new mercenaries/outlaws that we discussed here too.

I don't see anything obviously wrong with the African changes. Adding 3v to Hausa is a buff to their opening while the shipment XP and reduced cattle are nerfs to early timings and the long game which seem reasonable. The Lifidi change is more of an adjustment than a straight nerf, they tank less but do a comparable amount of extra damage and they're still tanky enough to fill their role.
As for Ethiopia, the monastery/abun buff is worth 2 extra villagers in early age 2 if you're building 2 monasteries (one in age 1, one in transition) and train abuns after reaching age 2, and you're saving 40w too. Again it's a timing nerf (2v pay off more slowly than selling a cow) but not much of a long-term change.

Fencing school WP was perhaps not needed for balance purposes, but it's very annoying to play against since those WP tank a lot and even if you're taking some of them out the Aztec player can bring them back very quickly. As Garja says the WP boom build usually doesn't use fencing school but 3 WP instead so it shouldn't change too much there, it's just a nerf for the long game to allow for more effective counterplay.

I'm curious about the Native Lore change. Were there some royal house techs with a high coin cost that made this too strong or is this meant to be a buff? I haven't had this card on my radar at all.
There was a 1500g tech in age three for one of the new houses that delivered an assortment of random mercenaries, not sure how many, maybe 8 or so?
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Re: Update 13.10442

Post by Zeus »

The native lore is for that 1500 gold tech thag gave random mercenary in one of the new maps. I think Europe map. Basically it was an auto win for Spain. Do FF with halbs from church and send those FREE mercenary as well. You had all this units by like 7 or 8 mins plus the 2 falcs. (Saw it done multiple times in twitch). OP strat lol
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Re: Update 13.10442

Post by helln00 »

the merchant republic change make sense to me since malta and italy had a very crowded age 2 deck often and it just eats into the slot, now its arguably more flexible
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Re: Update 13.10442

Post by ShinkuroYukinari »

helln00 wrote: ↑
08 Jun 2022, 05:14
the merchant republic change make sense to me since malta and italy had a very crowded age 2 deck often and it just eats into the slot, now its arguably more flexible
Except Marco Polo was moved into age 2, that being a very useful card in team games especially.
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Re: Update 13.10442

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Post by yoqpasa »

Added option to set transparent effect on Age-Up window to allow improved map visibility.
This feature was based on a popular mod created by Aizamk and implemented to address feedback from the community.
This option can be found within UI Options under the Game UI Options header.
Fix for Age Up menu resource cost display not updating immediately from red to white when required resources are met.

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Re: Update 13.10442

Post by look »

african civilizations looked ok to me i thought nerf units instead of these things.
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Re: Update 13.10442

Post by helln00 »

ShinkuroYukinari wrote: ↑
08 Jun 2022, 07:45
helln00 wrote: ↑
08 Jun 2022, 05:14
the merchant republic change make sense to me since malta and italy had a very crowded age 2 deck often and it just eats into the slot, now its arguably more flexible
Except Marco Polo was moved into age 2, that being a very useful card in team games especially.
Yeah but for malta atleast its definitely better now since it doesnt compete with the +30% gather card
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Re: Update 13.10442

Post by DNLgibraltar »

Zeus wrote: ↑
08 Jun 2022, 03:37
The native lore is for that 1500 gold tech thag gave random mercenary in one of the new maps. I think Europe map. Basically it was an auto win for Spain. Do FF with halbs from church and send those FREE mercenary as well. You had all this units by like 7 or 8 mins plus the 2 falcs. (Saw it done multiple times in twitch). OP strat lol
The cost of those minor civilizations is way out of bonds. It would make much more sense to balance out the cost to 500 resources each or 800w/800coin or any other combination. Their Big buttons should also cost 50 coin or 50xp or something around this line.
Some KOM' techs are also ridiculously cheap and cost only one resource (I.e: Marriage Politics/300 food/Age-ups are 20% cheaper). All legacy techs used to cost coin + wood/food. They were clearly so unaware of minor natives that they completely forgot about Native Lore and designed a bunch of powerful techs that would cost only gold. :unsure:

yoqpasa wrote: ↑
08 Jun 2022, 07:54
Added option to set transparent effect on Age-Up window to allow improved map visibility.
This feature was based on a popular mod created by Aizamk and implemented to address feedback from the community.
This option can be found within UI Options under the Game UI Options header.
Fix for Age Up menu resource cost display not updating immediately from red to white when required resources are met.

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How old is this gif? This guy had hair .About time they add this mod
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Re: Update 13.10442

Post by fei123456 »

There're also some hidden buffs to African civs. African start cow has 300 food now (from 250), and vills gather it with 3f/s. The 1st vill is a bit earlier.
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Re: Update 13.10442

Post by TranceGate »

Absurd, I don't see any corrections in regards to the explorer who stops and does not build the tp or to a group of settlers where many do not build the tp for example on 4 settlers 1 or 2 (in most cases) build the tp.
Among other things, some changes don't make sense, others favor team games like the Africans' nerfs but they sure will ruin them in 1v1.

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