Public Update Preview - June Update

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Re: Public Update Preview - June Update

Post by kevinitalien »

ShinkuroYukinari wrote:
15 Jun 2022, 12:14
kevinitalien wrote:
15 Jun 2022, 12:05
Kaiserklein wrote:
15 Jun 2022, 11:46
Ah there's still the old 3v card. But still don't see how the civ will be playable with 6 less vils. Basically you have to all in warhut rush, or all in ff into 8v follow up I guess. It's just weird
imo your eco is really not that bad, you have great hunter which gives you food (12.5% ​​of food of what you gathered + 20% gathering bonus) + the teepees which gives 10% of gathering bonus so your food income is really not bad at all ( but 5 v was prolly better tbh hard to say )and yeah i think lakota will be more aggressive now
Thing is, you're most likely gonna go for 400w ageup, and save the great hunter for later ages as you run out of hunts.
what ?, why you want to send great hunter when you run out of food, it make absolutely no sense for me lol ( great hunter = 20% gathering for hunt and the 12.5% of food )

and yeah 400w age up like as always
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Re: Public Update Preview - June Update

Post by Garja »

Riotcoke wrote:
15 Jun 2022, 08:59
Starting to look like we need zoi back ngl
Starting to look like Zoi is behind these changes ngl

Also still no gurard upgrade for pavisiers.

I just wonder how much this game still has to suffer.
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Re: Public Update Preview - June Update

Post by helln00 »

kevinitalien wrote:
15 Jun 2022, 12:44
ShinkuroYukinari wrote:
15 Jun 2022, 12:14
Show hidden quotes
Thing is, you're most likely gonna go for 400w ageup, and save the great hunter for later ages as you run out of hunts.
what ?, why you want to send great hunter when you run out of food, it make absolutely no sense for me lol ( great hunter = 20% gathering for hunt and the 12.5% of food )

and yeah 400w age up like as always
dont you kinda want to send when you have already gathered a decent amount of hunts to max out on that 1500 food cap though?

though that is like a huge amount of food gathered actually, to cap out you need to already gather 12k food
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Re: Public Update Preview - June Update

Post by kevinitalien »

helln00 wrote:
15 Jun 2022, 13:31
kevinitalien wrote:
15 Jun 2022, 12:44
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what ?, why you want to send great hunter when you run out of food, it make absolutely no sense for me lol ( great hunter = 20% gathering for hunt and the 12.5% of food )

and yeah 400w age up like as always
dont you kinda want to send when you have already gathered a decent amount of hunts to max out on that 1500 food cap though?

though that is like a huge amount of food gathered actually, to cap out you need to already gather 12k food
what is the point to send that card for 1k5 food ? hum i mean you want those 20% and your first batch of axe rider or BR lol otherwise your eco is bad
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Re: Public Update Preview - June Update

Post by Thrar »

20% going forward is better than 12.5% retroactively, even taking into account that your vils might already be buffed 20% from hunting dogs and a teepee. Due to the retroactive element it seems fine to send the card a bit later though if you need something else first, like 700c for bow riders.

-1 villager from the age 1 shipment seems more than outweighed by the 10% buff from building a teepee right at the start. By early age 2 that teepee is worth about 2 villagers by itself. Not having 5v is a bummer but with that 10% buff plus the option of sending Great Hunter instead I don't think the eco is any worse off than before.
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Re: Public Update Preview - June Update

Post by LionHeart »

Italy changes were needed, their xbows will be viable in age 4, at least early age 4.
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Re: Public Update Preview - June Update

Post by helln00 »

kevinitalien wrote:
15 Jun 2022, 13:58
helln00 wrote:
15 Jun 2022, 13:31
Show hidden quotes
dont you kinda want to send when you have already gathered a decent amount of hunts to max out on that 1500 food cap though?

though that is like a huge amount of food gathered actually, to cap out you need to already gather 12k food
what is the point to send that card for 1k5 food ? hum i mean you want those 20% and your first batch of axe rider or BR lol otherwise your eco is bad
true the 20% is much better, especially since you already have 10% yield increase as base.

on a side note, with the changes to the whole tribal market mechanics, I feel they should just make the full push and have it replace the estates for the 2 civs, making it like how mountain monasteries work, gathering from mines at an increased rate and then unlock slower infinite gather rate with a tech later.
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Re: Public Update Preview - June Update

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Post by yoqpasa »

Sick of random reworks every patch. Give us a real obs mode or an online friendlist, we would appreciate. I didn't even try all 30 new maps or the 8 new houses and they releasing more maps and another native civ. Also, why changing names which have been settled for 17 years? I'm talking about things like changing Genitours name to Order of whatever. I don't have time to study all this stuff, the game has become overwhelming for new players.
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Re: Public Update Preview - June Update

Post by Kaiserklein »

kevinitalien wrote:
15 Jun 2022, 12:05
imo your eco is really not that bad, you have great hunter which gives you food (12.5% ​​of food of what you gathered + 20% gathering bonus) + the teepees which gives 10% of gathering bonus so your food income is really not bad at all ( but 5 v was prolly better tbh hard to say )and yeah i think lakota will be more aggressive now
It's definitely quite bad. Let's have a look at the pros:
- Great hunter pays you back 12.5% of the food you've gathered until it comes. In the greediest scenario, you ship it first in colonial. At that point you've gathered this from hunts : 800f for the age up, 700f to train 7 vils in age 1, minus 400f from starting crates => that's 1100f. Let's be generous and call it 2000f because of the food you gather in transition / during 40s in colo until great hunter comes in. 2000 * 0.125 = 250f.
- You can get 10% eco from teepees
- You get 100 extra wood (though chopping for a TP is slow as Sioux)
- Free tribal market places
- (I guess you get 10% yield on hunts but that's not eco per se, at least not in early game)

Now the cons:
- 1 less vil from your age 1 shipment. By the time Great Hunter comes in, that one vil would have gathered like 150 - 200f, almost the amount the card gives you
- Great Hunter now grants 5% less boost. Also it's not worth delaying the card for the 12.5% payback, since it's less than the 20% you'd get from shipping it
- You have 5 less vils in colo. Which also makes shipping Great Hunter worse (20% on 5 vils that you don't have is -1v for Great Hunter)
- You gather coin 10% slower. Unless you pay 75f 125w which is 50w more than placer mines
- In the best case, you probably have to pay for 100 - 150w of teepees to have 10% on your whole eco. And since you have less vils, that aura is worth less, definitely doesn't make up for the vil loss


So it's clear the eco is worse now. And even if you wanna greed, you need to invest resources into teepees and the coin upgrade, instead of just shipping 5v and getting a better eco anyway.
I guess you can chop for a TP in age 1 and age a vil late, and have some sort of timing thanks to the extra XP you get. But the follow up is much worse, and besides I don't even think that timing is stronger than what Sioux used to have already.
That's why I think Sioux is just gonna be shit now, and basically forced to all in. If your all in FF can deal damage you have a good follow up now I guess.
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Re: Public Update Preview - June Update

Post by Thrar »

Way to go looking only at negatives and ignoring the positives.

At the start of age 2 you're ahead, not behind the current state. The 10% gather boost is stronger than missing 1 vil from the first shipment, and even after the teepee you still have an extra 50w.
You're shipping great hunter instead of the 5v. It's not a question of otherwise shipping both except in the greediest situations.
Teepees boost all gathering by 10%. That's equivalent to the current coin gather rate. You're ahead by 25w from the free marketplace, and have the option of upgrading which you didn't have at all until now.

In the long run, building a teepee and a free marketplace on any mine is only 25w more expensive, gives the same gather rate, and boosts your nearby units (including those vil HP) on top to help with raids.
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Re: Public Update Preview - June Update

Post by helln00 »

just theory crafting but from the new cards, an infantry FI is on the table right? the Seven Council Fires Card upgrades war hut unit to guard for free and also gives 21 unit pop, then spam the 2 wakina shipments then +20% HP for all the units then +75% siege on the clubs if you need to siege the base
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Re: Public Update Preview - June Update

Post by Kaiserklein »

Way to just think completely wrong.
Thrar wrote:
15 Jun 2022, 15:20
At the start of age 2 you're ahead, not behind the current state. The 10% gather boost is stronger than missing 1 vil from the first shipment, and even after the teepee you still have an extra 50w.
Yeah when you just hit age 2 you're a little bit ahead. Even if you paid for only 1 teepee, you're like 100 resources ahead at most.
Thrar wrote:
15 Jun 2022, 15:20
You're shipping great hunter instead of the 5v.
And it's strictly worse. Not even 3 vils if you ship it first card, do the maths. Barely more if you ship it later, and if you do ship it later you lose even more resources compared to the 5v you would've had earlier. And the 12.5% food payback doesn't nearly compensate.
Thrar wrote:
15 Jun 2022, 15:20
It's not a question of otherwise shipping both except in the greediest situations.
And who stated that? You?
Shipping both cards was definitely an option lol. Especially since Great Hunter stacks on top of the extra vils you shipped, and especially as it was 25%. Now your only "eco option" is to only ship Great Hunter and still have a shit eco.
Thrar wrote:
15 Jun 2022, 15:20
Teepees boost all gathering by 10%. That's equivalent to the current coin gather rate. You're ahead by 25w from the free marketplace, and have the option of upgrading which you didn't have at all until now.
Yeah, too bad you're down 6 vils... Out of which between 1 and 3 (depending on the build) would have been set to coin. So even if you pay 125w 75f for 10% (what a bargain...) you're easily gathering slower.
Also let's not pretend 1 teepee is gonna boost your entire gathering. You most likely need at least 2 of them to cover all your eco in the early game, and several more as the game goes on. It's not like it's a free boost.
Thrar wrote:
15 Jun 2022, 15:20
In the long run, building a teepee and a free marketplace on any mine is only 25w more expensive, gives the same gather rate, and boosts your nearby units (including those vil HP) on top to help with raids.
In the long run, you've lost a lot of resources because you're down in vils. Also we were discussing the eco, not the other factors. There's a billion other changes to the civ we'd need to consider in that case.
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Re: Public Update Preview - June Update

Post by Garja »

I don't get why removing mild cards such as 5v or 4v. Atleast give those civs significant compensation for that. First Hausa and Ethiopia, now Sioux also get screwed.
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Re: Public Update Preview - June Update

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Post by callentournies »

Riotcoke wrote:
15 Jun 2022, 08:59
Starting to look like we need zoi back ngl
we always did
off topic is dead
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Re: Public Update Preview - June Update

Post by Vladimatt »

Garja wrote:
15 Jun 2022, 13:00
Riotcoke wrote:
15 Jun 2022, 08:59
Starting to look like we need zoi back ngl
Starting to look like Zoi is behind these changes ngl

Also still no gurard upgrade for pavisiers.

I just wonder how much this game still has to suffer.
I like everything here but seriously why can't the damn xbows just have guard/imp upgrades? It feels weird researching steel bolts and other archer upgrades on this civ knowing my xbows will just be phased out. At least we got this now
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which seems like a pseudo guard upgrade in the sense of giving them a state militia mechanic but I haven't tested the numbers yet.
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Re: Public Update Preview - June Update

Post by DragonFruit »

Vladimatt wrote:
15 Jun 2022, 19:00
Garja wrote:
15 Jun 2022, 13:00
Riotcoke wrote:
15 Jun 2022, 08:59
Starting to look like we need zoi back ngl
Starting to look like Zoi is behind these changes ngl

Also still no gurard upgrade for pavisiers.

I just wonder how much this game still has to suffer.
I like everything here but seriously why can't the damn xbows just have guard/imp upgrades? It feels weird researching steel bolts and other archer upgrades on this civ knowing my xbows will just be phased out. At least we got this now
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which seems like a pseudo guard upgrade in the sense of giving them a state militia mechanic but I haven't tested the numbers yet.
From my testing in age 4 the attack boost caps at 31 pavisiers granting them a 30% attack boost. In age 5 they get an additional 25%hp and the max attack boost is increased by 25% for a total of 1.75x base stats with the vet upgrade. In age 5 you only need 8 pavisiers to get the max boost. It scales off of base stats. Pikes and halbs seem to get max 10-15% attack in age 4 (not too sure) and max 20% attack in age 5 (again not too sure).
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Re: Public Update Preview - June Update

Post by leg[] »

Is FPS lag and lack of responsiveness during larger battles on the screen even a real problem? Oris there something where it's just me. Sometimes it seems like frames just drop especially in times when it's a big battle with 4 or more players. Of course things are still happening, but it's like the screen is not responding so you just have to deal with the lag, then you get a slideshow and units are just dying randomly. I don't see if they are working on that, or if it's even considered a problem.
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Re: Public Update Preview - June Update

Post by helln00 »

after trying it a bit, I think they can get 5 vils back . removing 4 was fine with the crates and tepee changes but the have non-all in age 2 play you kinda need 5 vils, learned that lesson with malta.
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Re: Public Update Preview - June Update

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Post by EAGLEMUT »

There's a new update on the PUP:

June Update – Build # 13.11841
  • Fixed several issues with the new Age Up button
  • Fixed Corsair Marksman outlaws not appearing on African maps
  • Fix for the Explorer not pathing correctly to build a Trade Post (at certain angles they would never reach the target and start building the TP)
Could it really be that TP pathing is fixed for good?
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Re: Public Update Preview - June Update

Post by Challenger_Marco »

Why do i have to re-learn the game everytime i play after taking months break? At this point when this game is gonna reach stability in balance? now Lakota rework imagine if all old players returned and they tried DE they won't even bother re-learning this game and would just simply stop playing ,who has time in the world to master everything?
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Re: Public Update Preview - June Update

Post by speedflyer »

Challenger_Marco wrote:
16 Jun 2022, 07:32
Why do i have to re-learn the game everytime i play after taking months break? At this point when this game is gonna reach stability in balance? now Lakota rework imagine if all old players returned and they tried DE they won't even bother re-learning this game and would just simply stop playing ,who has time in the world to master everything?
ngl that's exactly how i feel right now , it's just a pain. i'll never understand why they feel the need to change so much things , even to civs that were already sort of balanced before DE.
I hope Zoi and his team of faithful minions can stop demonizing people
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Re: Public Update Preview - June Update

Post by Kaiserklein »

EAGLEMUT wrote:
16 Jun 2022, 07:26
Could it really be that TP pathing is fixed for good?
Lol I doubt it. They've "fixed" TPs in so many patches, and we know the result... Also still can't shift click to build a TP either
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Re: Public Update Preview - June Update

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Post by lenlenlena3 »

made a clip -> posted in discord -> confirmed they were tracking the bug that causes your explorer to stop walking halfway, when building tp and the same with the dock -> next patch hopefully fixed.
If you guys want bugs fixed, take clip post it in discord they will respond and work on it ASAP. I used to be like you guys and complain a lot, till I realised i'm part of the problem. The developers are good, only so much they can do though, when it comes to finding every single bug in this game themselves.
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Re: Public Update Preview - June Update

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Post by lenlenlena3 »

iNcog wrote:
15 Jun 2022, 12:33
So Lakota more broken now. Ugh why are they doing this with the game. :/ It's so gimmicky instead of solid, good design.

I did name my dog lakota though.
It actually feels like with the lakota rework and all of the previous civilization reworks they are trying to make the game and these civilizations more well rounded and balanced, instead of just giving each individual civilization overpowered stuff and trying to balance it that way. It seems to me that they're actually actively attempting to reach a solid design, re creating civilizations that are refreshing and can do more and don't just have insane high and low spikes or feel one dimensional. It's funny you say lakota has a solid design tho because ever since i've played DE all i've heard is 80% of the aoe 3 players i've interacted with complaining about their terrible design, begging for a rework.
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Re: Public Update Preview - June Update

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Post by Thrar »

Oh, you must be new here. This is ESOC, where people come to whine that things don't get changed, and then whine some more when they do get changed. Adaptability and an open mind to try something new are not desirable traits here, but don't worry, our friends here will help you lose those soon enough.

(Yes, I know you're not new here. :flowers: )

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