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Personally, I find their cav strats to be more or less the same, if anything with a stronger start thanks to the guaranteed Teepee and Hunting dogs. You don't even feel the loss in vil cards TBF.

And late game all the little changes add up quite nicely, especially the teepee ones if you get it up quickly. That attack speed aura in particular is so nice for Rifle Rider spamming, letting such a hard hitter hit even harder.

Unfortunately I didn't get to try the infantry strats yet, and I do wonder if anyone tried them out as such? Been mostly doing the classic AR/BR into AR/RR strategies

ShinkuroYukinari wrote: ↑

23 Jun 2022, 23:20

Personally, I find their cav strats to be more or less the same, if anything with a stronger start thanks to the guaranteed Teepee and Hunting dogs. You don't even feel the loss in vil cards TBF.

And late game all the little changes add up quite nicely, especially the teepee ones if you get it up quickly. That attack speed aura in particular is so nice for Rifle Rider spamming, letting such a hard hitter hit even harder.

Unfortunately I didn't get to try the infantry strats yet, and I do wonder if anyone tried them out as such? Been mostly doing the classic AR/BR into AR/RR strategies

that not about teepee and hunting dogs, you have 200w dude just gather 50w and you have tp and teepee, i mean......... and if you find coin treasure quickly you can market tp and teepee.....

Hmm, good point. I'll need to try that out in my next game, tho the market teepee has been serving me well.

With the new native TP change it looks like you can walk your explorer up to one, start the auto-build for 100f 100w, then right-click the explorer onto it to build it conventionally. The build time is the same as usual and they give 0.35XP/s, so half a church or about 1/3 of a trade route TP.

I'm wondering if a native TP for 100f 100w is a real alternative for civs that would otherwise need to chop a lot. Lakota might be able to do the market + TP + teepee this way (treasures or mine for 75c, then buy 100w), France can do a TP start without chopping, China might be able to do TP and 2 villages, and so on.

On top of that you'll have a limited military building that you can use to train units right at the start of age 2 and if the nats are suitable maybe do a semi-FF without any regular military building.

Are TP and teepee pronounced identically?

I am just enjoying the wakina FI for team games

I'm playing the new lakotas as a team, mostly without the card 5 seattlers have a slightly slower eco so I notice that these changes focus a lot on boosting the eco more in the mid game and nerfing the cavalry a little in 2 ages without the defense card, the latter mainly I do not like very much. The change in the cost of the axes in my opinion is senseless for team but perhaps also for 1v1. The TP change from lakota seems to make a native rush more viable as you invest 100f and 100w for a TP and it's cheaper than before. In my opinion the Lakotas precedent were better than now, they only needed small economic nerfs as their economy was too good as a team.

However they are still quite good on a team and still do their dirty work. I like the change of teepees as it makes civilization less monotonous and more macro manageable.

Forget the fortress play. Semi-FI is the new OP meta for them.

What you got from aging up:
- 3 free Tokala soldiers, while the big button costs 2000 now (or 20 bisons and 30% hunting boost)
- 21 infantry, and upgrade all your infantry into champions
- 1000 coin 18 cheyenne riders that costs 3,330 resources
- 500 coin 4 guard mortar, unlock outlaw and upgrade them into industrial stats (though no one is going to use them)

Lakota can have a full industrial age unit combo, without upgrading a single unit. Free upgrade for all infantry, auto-upgraded warchief tokala and tashunke, auto-upgraded mortar... That reminds me of the old days that Spain go xbow pike FI.

fei123456 wrote: ↑

25 Jun 2022, 07:04

Forget the fortress play. Semi-FI is the new OP meta for them.

What you got from aging up:
- 3 free Tokala soldiers, while the big button costs 2000 now (or 20 bisons and 30% hunting boost)
- 21 infantry, and upgrade all your infantry into champions
- 1000 coin 18 cheyenne riders that costs 3,330 resources
- 500 coin 4 guard mortar, unlock outlaw and upgrade them into industrial stats (though no one is going to use them)

Lakota can have a full industrial age unit combo, without upgrading a single unit. Free upgrade for all infantry, auto-upgraded warchief tokala and tashunke, auto-upgraded mortar... That reminds me of the old days that Spain go xbow pike FI.

Problem: Lakota doesn't have a 1000c shipment, making any sort of FI really painful to get to. How do you get past it while aging in time?

Plus, that's a lot of cards that require additional resources to unlock. The 21 infantry tho is quite a solid first pick

ShinkuroYukinari wrote: ↑

25 Jun 2022, 10:15

fei123456 wrote: ↑

25 Jun 2022, 07:04

Forget the fortress play. Semi-FI is the new OP meta for them.

What you got from aging up:
- 3 free Tokala soldiers, while the big button costs 2000 now (or 20 bisons and 30% hunting boost)
- 21 infantry, and upgrade all your infantry into champions
- 1000 coin 18 cheyenne riders that costs 3,330 resources
- 500 coin 4 guard mortar, unlock outlaw and upgrade them into industrial stats (though no one is going to use them)

Lakota can have a full industrial age unit combo, without upgrading a single unit. Free upgrade for all infantry, auto-upgraded warchief tokala and tashunke, auto-upgraded mortar... That reminds me of the old days that Spain go xbow pike FI.

Problem: Lakota doesn't have a 1000c shipment, making any sort of FI really painful to get to. How do you get past it while aging in time?

Plus, that's a lot of cards that require additional resources to unlock. The 21 infantry tho is quite a solid first pick

So far I have found that just gathering the coin directily is like decent enough when you have the tepees.

You do have to rely on the non coin costing units in the mean time

Like assuming you use the fast age up for age 4, just during the age up time for age 2-3 is enough to gather the coin for the age ups (also use 700 coin crates)

like 10 min timing is not unreasonable naked, i havent tried a semi yet.

the rough build so far kinda goes
TP start (chop for 50 wood to get a tepee) - either trade tp or 2 native tps
- 3 vils (or team spice trade if its a team game)
collect 300 gold in transition
age 2 400 wood
- 700 coin
set all vils on coin in transition
age 3 1000 food
- great hunter ( can send this earlier during transition as well)
- all but like 5 vils on coin until enough (the rest on food)
in transition all vils on wood and food to prepare for club spam
age 4 fast age
- put down war hut
- 21 infantry
- 18 wakina
- 16 wakina
- 20% hp
- 10 clubs from age 3 as well
all the while spam our clubs

i used to go 700c 600c fi as sioux on tad. ive gotten sub-9 min timings before. should still work. 400w age, 1000f age with 700c 600c all comes together pretty quick if you aren't pressured

I didn't mean a naked FI here. You can do some bow club pressure, send mining +20% and great hunter for better eco, then go age iii with 1000 food. With 1000 food crates you go age iv instantly.

It doesn't have to be fast age up. 20 bisons are desirable too, and you can send 1000 wood for market big button and got 3 industrial shipments instantly.

fei123456 wrote: ↑

26 Jun 2022, 02:34

I didn't mean a naked FI here. You can do some bow club pressure, send mining +20% and great hunter for better eco, then go age iii with 1000 food. With 1000 food crates you go age iv instantly.

It doesn't have to be fast age up. 20 bisons are desirable too, and you can send 1000 wood for market big button and got 3 industrial shipments instantly.

now that i think the tribal market gives +10% yield by default, how long can lakota last on the initial mines I wonder, especially with silversmith

100c or 100f or sth more needs to remove from starting crates, all in rush too op and in some maps its just unbeatable. With some good treasures i had 29 unit pop at 6:20 and 21v, my eco not even that behind with this kind of army and im not the best lakota player or sth.

You can't have 21v by 6:20, more like 19v. Also 30 units by that time is a lot for sure but it doesn't sound overpowered for an all in, other civs can achieve that.

Kaleli wrote: ↑

29 Jun 2022, 00:15

100c or 100f or sth more needs to remove from starting crates, all in rush too op and in some maps its just unbeatable. With some good treasures i had 29 unit pop at 6:20 and 21v, my eco not even that behind with this kind of army and im not the best lakota player or sth.

Do you have a replay or BO? I'd like to know, tho presumably you're going for Cetan and Clubbing

Lakota infantry base stat is greater than Haud's. 30 units at 6:30 doesn't mean victory, but it's easy to do mass damage to enemy eco, or to do a TPboom safely. And age IV 21 infantry is such broken that playing age iii is meaningless now.

u can have 21v when u fast age. plus i had hunting dogs and tepee and i dont have rec sorry shinkuro

Yes, it's probably the best rework/review so far! They've been revamped but they retained their "origins" and I do think they are definitely stronger than before, powerful but not oppressively OP.

They did gain in some ways and lost in others. I'm actually bumped because Siege Dance is really not that useful anymore and AGE 4 Mortars are not certain in 1v1, so it's definitely a con.

Next patch I hope to see teepees go back to 10% bonus and a 4v or 5v cards reintroduced to commerce age. And obviously The 7 Council card will be nerfed for sure.

DNLgibraltar wrote: ↑

01 Jul 2022, 23:21

Yes, it's probably the best rework/review so far! They've been revamped but they retained their "origins" and I do think they are definitely stronger than before, powerful but not oppressively OP.

They did gain in some ways and lost in others. I'm actually bumped because Siege Dance is really not that useful anymore and AGE 4 Mortars are not certain in 1v1, so it's definitely a con.

Next patch I hope to see teepees go back to 10% bonus and a 4v or 5v cards reintroduced to commerce age. And obviously The 7 Council card will be nerfed for sure.

The age 1 explorer card now also gives an aura that boost siege attacks, I wonder if it works with the mortars

helln00 wrote: ↑

02 Jul 2022, 02:32

DNLgibraltar wrote: ↑

01 Jul 2022, 23:21

Yes, it's probably the best rework/review so far! They've been revamped but they retained their "origins" and I do think they are definitely stronger than before, powerful but not oppressively OP.

They did gain in some ways and lost in others. I'm actually bumped because Siege Dance is really not that useful anymore and AGE 4 Mortars are not certain in 1v1, so it's definitely a con.

Next patch I hope to see teepees go back to 10% bonus and a 4v or 5v cards reintroduced to commerce age. And obviously The 7 Council card will be nerfed for sure.

The age 1 explorer card now also gives an aura that boost siege attacks, I wonder if it works with the mortars

was there before the rework, nothing new