Bye

[helln00]

I do want to say that it might be a good idea to have more say "themed" tourneys and events which will allow for more say fixed or figured metas which can both allow for diversity of things to show and players that can play them.

Like there used to be the gold only challenge, the warchief cup, pikeman only (what a show) where its all stuff that had unsettled meta that was solved over time and with the game being bigger then ever in terms of content, its perfectly reasonable to take different approaches to tourneys, instead of just having one big standard one only ( though resource constraints should be noted).

So like a few ideas
- Classic cup ( up to tad)
- Old world cup ( no americas)
- Euro cup ( only euro civs)
- Americas cup (natives + US and mexico)
- Pacific cup (asia + americas)
- Atlantic cup ( Euro + americas)
- North america club ( Euro civs with presence in north america + haud + US)
etc etc.

[Cometk]

If the game was totally dead before DE it sure as shit is now.

imo i thought the game was in a pretty great state before DE release, EP was such a refined and consummate product after the years of iteration (bless eaglemut, kev, musketeer and all those who contributed) and it was super smooth to play and easy to host events on. i think it could've gone on into perpetuity for many years more without losing steam, even with the inevitable change in life circumstances of players, organizers, and community members that would affect engagement with the hobby.

The 'ded' part was imo primarily because of the fact that the game was no longer supported (thus, RE being plagued with blatant cheaters, terrible balance, bad maps and EP only containing a fragment of the players).

I think that a DE which only really adressed these issues would have 'revived' the community just as much, if not more, than what DE is like right now. Though surely the current format, while imo bad for the core community, brings in more money for microsoft.

i think i basically agreed with GS in that DE has made the game feel dead, although now that I think of if more, the game might actually be in a better state considering the steam population graphs -- the past four months have seen a continuous uptick in growth, and the past 30 days are actually close to the beginning of the COVID pandemic boost the game saw. towards the end of Legacy's lifespan it was getting between 1500-2000 average concurrent players, and rn DE is getting 3000+.

now don't get me wrong, the pro scene has been pretty dislocated, and the competitive health of the game is dubious and so if we confine the context of "dead" to this then it is more true now than ever. but idk, if this trend of popularity continues or even just maintains, we should see a new crop of players invest themselves in the game and community and rise the ranks. idk

I also dont really see whats wrong about people voicing a conservative opinion. At some point, you've definitely earned the right to voice respectful disappointment with a new version of a game. People like Garja or Goodspeed, who have been playing fhe game since its inception and have been part of the community since the beginning havd definitely earned that right. I find it very peculiar that some people attack them for voicing their opinion and reinforcing it with well laid out arguments. Seems kinda toxic to me.

i apologize, was this directed at me+others or mostly others?

[JKProwler]

The last DLC was a great one imo. I think devs got too creative at start but hopefully learnt there lesson.

What I'm hoping is that they focus more on QOL stuff, like having ranks (I really miss this from legacy).

Also develop there API capability so the community can build better stat's tracker.

Would be really cool to also see devs enable you to collect aoe coins by playing and winning games and these coins can be used to do micro transactions like buying new taunts, buy special gif like profile pictures, change launch game backgrounds and sounds, different profile page backgrounds, new art of war challenges etc..

Also they have to fix up the optimisation issue of the game. Game lagging after a couple of games and requiring a restart is really off putting for new players

[iNcog]

i apologize, was this directed at me+others or mostly others?

I don't think this was directed at you from what I can read in this thread.

I think that you hit the nail on the head in your post. DE has increased the casual player base extensively and breathed new life into the game. The casual player-base being larger than what it was, I think, is a good and healthy thing for the game overall. In fact it's probably worth paying the price of alienating the highest level players for it. New pros will emerge from the dust and give it a few years and the meta will settle down. Mechanics and other small things will matter more again, like they did in late EP era. Thereafter we can have another old pro vs new pro argument again.

For the time being though, it's very difficult to look at DE in its current state and not see that it definitely killed "traditional" aoe3. I said this in another thread and it was largely ignored but there are no more high level 3v3 randoms, no more lobby 1v1s, etc. The game itself, these days, revolves a lot more around figuring out broken build orders than anything else. It doesn't matter how mechanically well you pull off a VC boom these days, the strategy isn't viable anymore. You can't pick into a more fun or well designed match up anymore, if you queue into a USA cowboy game, that's that.

To say whether this is good or bad is tricky in itself, but I think it's quite realistic to say that the design and balance changes made by the DE devs is clearly and blatantly not what AoE3 was prior to the DE release. I also still haven't forgotten the appalling treatment that Zoi received back in the EP days for not being more conservative with proposed EP changes. Poor guy. Well look at us now motherfuckers, Kaiserklein quit the game because he couldn't figure out Maltese exploding buildings.

[look]

how can anyone refuse 2k dollars?
Bye = ego?
Lose money for ego?

[Goodspeed]

how can anyone refuse 2k dollars?

Easily, if it takes a significant time investment to get it. Especially if that investment is on top of a full-time job and if it's something you don't enjoy at all.

[RefluxSemantic]

@Cometk sorry second part was not directed at you at all. I have bad internet atm so I tried to just add everything to one post.

[look]

how can anyone refuse 2k dollars?

Easily, if it takes a significant time investment to get it. Especially if that investment is on top of a full-time job and if it's something you don't enjoy at all.

agree.. but isnt the case anyway.

[Goodspeed]

Which part? Do you think that "old" top players...
- Don't have full-time jobs or studies
- Enjoy DE
- Wouldn't have to spend significant time practicing for the 2k?

[dansil92]

2k dollars really isnt that much for a lot of us anymore tbh

[aaryngend]

- Wouldn't have to spend significant time practicing for the 2k?

Define significant time. Pretty sure someone could win the tourney with 15-20h a week practice on the side if they are a former top player.

Just a wild guess.

[Garja]

15-20h with the current rules is definetely not enough and it is already a significant time to dedicate for a retired player

[Mitoe]

15-20 hours does mean making a lot of sacrifices in your daily life, and those 15-20 hours are also often only productive for a tournament if you have a good practice partner; which is not easy to find when you have a limited window to play every day.

[Goodspeed]

- Wouldn't have to spend significant time practicing for the 2k?

Define significant time. Pretty sure someone could win the tourney with 15-20h a week practice on the side if they are a former top player.

Just a wild guess.

Hypothetically, 15h a week would be quite significant to me. I'd have to give up most of my hobbies and for what, an eventual chance at 2k? Meh

It would be easy to justify if gaming is your job but if you're already working 40h and don't necessarily need the money it's a lot harder

[RefluxSemantic]

Lets say its 50% chance at winning 2k through spending a month practising 20 hours a week. Thats almost below minumum wage..

[callentournies]

is the community srsly discovering that players don't play tournaments to make a living

[RefluxSemantic]

is the community srsly discovering that players don't play tournaments to make a living

Obviously you cant make a living playing tournaments since they are too infrequent. But even if its a side hustle, it doesnt pay that well.

[Warno]

Welcome to adulthood @Kaiserklein !

One can truly not retire from this game though, it always sucks us back in...

[look]

I'm not talking about tired old people without time..
I'm talking about the best currently that with 1h a day would be enough to guarantee 2k

so when I said "who would waste 2k" this is only for those who can really win, with or without dedication(and this is kaiser or hazza)

obviously if your personal life is conflicting, then you have to decide, live your boss's dream or live your life.

[dansil92]

my dude, 2000 dollars really isnt that much for the hours you'll put in

[Dolan]

The sum is small for a tourney sponsored by Microsoft, which shows that it's meant to be a token sponsorship, to pacify AOE3 PvP players so they don't get the feeling they've been forgotten. Like it's been the case for 17 years.
But it also shows the priority they give to AOE3 compared to the other games from the franchise. So yeah, it's not the kind of money that could keep a pro scene going. It's a headpat from Microsoft.

[callentournies]

I like being pet

[Hazza54321]

Its not only the money to time ratio. More that id rather have a social life

[look]

my dude, 2000 dollars really isnt that much for the hours you'll put in

in this case it's basically earning 2k having fun.
2k dollars is relative to the place where you live, and it can be a lot or a little, it doesn't matter.
I'm talking directly about kaiser.

2k may be little for you, who live in a reality where this is little, but for most places around the world it is not.
for someone like you I advise you to study more the reality of the outside world before saying that 2k is not enough. taunt 25.

[look]

Its not only the money to time ratio. More that id rather have a social life

if i were you i would play, it's basically free money.
its only 2weekends.