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Re: Bye

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Post by Cleters »

Hazza54321 wrote: ↑
17 Jul 2022, 07:51
Its not only the money to time ratio. More that id rather have a social life
We all saw you doing nr60 on Saturday night, what you even talking ahout :p
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Re: Bye

Post by Goodspeed »

look wrote: ↑
17 Jul 2022, 07:58
dansil92 wrote: ↑
16 Jul 2022, 23:56
my dude, 2000 dollars really isnt that much for the hours you'll put in
in this case it's basically earning 2k having fun.
Except it's not fun, is kind of the point
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Re: Bye

Post by dansil92 »

look wrote: ↑
17 Jul 2022, 07:58
dansil92 wrote: ↑
16 Jul 2022, 23:56
my dude, 2000 dollars really isnt that much for the hours you'll put in
in this case it's basically earning 2k having fun.
2k dollars is relative to the place where you live, and it can be a lot or a little, it doesn't matter.
I'm talking directly about kaiser.

2k may be little for you, who live in a reality where this is little, but for most places around the world it is not.
for someone like you I advise you to study more the reality of the outside world before saying that 2k is not enough. taunt 25.
i have visited places where 2000 dollars would be nearly a 6 months wages, I'm not ignorant or oblivious to that. but if you own a pc that's good enough to run aoe3:de and especially one that can stream it, you are not one of those people lol
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Re: Bye

Post by Rohbrot »

dansil92 wrote: ↑
17 Jul 2022, 12:23
look wrote: ↑
17 Jul 2022, 07:58
dansil92 wrote: ↑
16 Jul 2022, 23:56
my dude, 2000 dollars really isnt that much for the hours you'll put in
in this case it's basically earning 2k having fun.
2k dollars is relative to the place where you live, and it can be a lot or a little, it doesn't matter.
I'm talking directly about kaiser.

2k may be little for you, who live in a reality where this is little, but for most places around the world it is not.
for someone like you I advise you to study more the reality of the outside world before saying that 2k is not enough. taunt 25.
i have visited places where 2000 dollars would be nearly a 6 months wages, I'm not ignorant or oblivious to that. but if you own a pc that's good enough to run aoe3:de and especially one that can stream it, you are not one of those people lol
Let's not talk like you need a high end pc/laptop to play Aoe3 DE lol
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Re: Bye

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Post by Kaiserklein »

look wrote: ↑
17 Jul 2022, 07:58

in this case it's basically earning 2k having fun.
2k dollars is relative to the place where you live, and it can be a lot or a little, it doesn't matter.
I'm talking directly about kaiser.

2k may be little for you, who live in a reality where this is little, but for most places around the world it is not.
for someone like you I advise you to study more the reality of the outside world before saying that 2k is not enough. taunt 25.
No, it's forcing myself to play the game with civs and maps I don't enjoy. It's everything but fun. Also would mean I have to cancel irl plans which is not an option in my book.

And sure where you live 2k may be a lot, but how is it relevant? For me it isn't much, definitely not worth the hassle at least
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Re: Bye

Post by look »

Kaiserklein wrote: ↑
17 Jul 2022, 15:52
look wrote: ↑
17 Jul 2022, 07:58

in this case it's basically earning 2k having fun.
2k dollars is relative to the place where you live, and it can be a lot or a little, it doesn't matter.
I'm talking directly about kaiser.

2k may be little for you, who live in a reality where this is little, but for most places around the world it is not.
for someone like you I advise you to study more the reality of the outside world before saying that 2k is not enough. taunt 25.
No, it's forcing myself to play the game with civs and maps I don't enjoy. It's everything but fun. Also would mean I have to cancel irl plans which is not an option in my book.

And sure where you live 2k may be a lot, but how is it relevant? For me it isn't much, definitely not worth the hassle at least
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Re: Bye

Post by look »

.
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Re: Bye

Post by JKProwler »

Damn inflation is even hitting aoe3 community
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Re: Bye

Post by PatrickLFC »

JKProwler wrote: ↑
18 Jul 2022, 01:29
Damn inflation is even hitting aoe3 community
Specifically the ladder :hmm:
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Post by JKProwler »

So I decided to try legacy after many months and oh boy.

The lag, the too zoomed in view and the unable to select more than 50 units especially in late game.

The pathing is not ay better, tbh it felt worse in legacy.

Ppl here love to complain and hyoe up about the past, but DE in game playability is just so much better.

However I do miss seeing the friends list always displayed tho, seeing a rank !nd being able to click away while waiting for game.

The UI looks outdated in legacy but it's designed much better than DE in terms of practicality
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Post by Garja »

Pathing wasn't better, I agree. However DE has many changes path related that don't make sense (e.g units moving to the point after killing a unit).
The zoom is about getting used really. At first in DE beta, zoom was perceived way too far. In fact, I think most legacy players still don't max out the zoom on DE (I play at something like 2/3 max zoom).
Aside from lag, playability overall was defo better on legacy. I'm pretty sure DE still has the dragbox reduce framerate issue for example (my pc is just fine if you're wondering). But players kinda got used to DE and all its bug/issues so they don't complain anymore nearly as they should. Also there must be some part of the playerbase that keeps pushing for bad QOL changes such as tagging warrior priests as eco unit (can't pop out vills and WP in two different places).
Art work on legacy was miles better, including the UI style. But I wouldn't blame devs too much for that since it is mostly down to art talent and also I guess some people have questionable taste and may even prefer DE look.
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Re: Bye

Post by dicktator_ »

JKProwler wrote: ↑
22 Jul 2022, 15:31
So I decided to try legacy after many months and oh boy.

The lag, the too zoomed in view and the unable to select more than 50 units especially in late game.

The pathing is not ay better, tbh it felt worse in legacy.

Ppl here love to complain and hyoe up about the past, but DE in game playability is just so much better.

However I do miss seeing the friends list always displayed tho, seeing a rank !nd being able to click away while waiting for game.

The UI looks outdated in legacy but it's designed much better than DE in terms of practicality
The zoom was fine IMO and lag was dependent on the players, which was definitely frustrating at times but was fine for the most part if you played with the right people. 50 unit selection limit was a reasonable restriction imo.

Pathing wasn’t that much better on legacy if at all, I agree. I think kaiserklein used to complain about it all the time on legacy as well.

The legacy ui nukes the de ui because it is much, much easier to deselect different unit types. This happened in aoe4 to, where you can’t/couldn’t deselect certain unit types at all (maybe you can now, I haven’t been following). They keep wanting to make sleek minimalist modern UIs but end up hurting gameplay.

The reason top players are nostalgic for legacy isn’t because of anything in this post, it’s because of balance and the meta. The game was more competitive and balanced on EP, so top players enjoyed it much more. Competitive aoe3 players are a very small percentage of the overall fan base though, so for the majority of players, DE is definitely better.
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Post by kevinitalien »

i don't think it's because of the meta or the balance, i think mostly it's because of the new civ in general and how gimmicky they can be, like is someone can imagine rapha playing USA ? or kaiser playing hausa ? or even hazza playing mexico and revo 3 time in one game, i think it's due to the design of the new civ itself and then ofc they don't want to learn these civ and then lost against them because they don't understand what happens in this game
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Re: Bye

Post by look »

kevinitalien wrote: ↑
23 Jul 2022, 00:38
i don't think it's because of the meta or the balance, i think mostly it's because of the new civ in general and how gimmicky they can be, like is someone can imagine rapha playing USA ? or kaiser playing hausa ? or even hazza playing mexico and revo 3 time in one game, i think it's due to the design of the new civ itself and then ofc they don't want to learn these civ and then lost against them because they don't understand what happens in this game
very well said!

for me it's a matter of learning new things, I hate learning new things in games, obviously because of my game time which is sometimes limited, so I want to do what I already know
we have jobs, studies, family, etc etc, learning something new for me is not fun, it ends up becoming frustrating
the bigger problem becomes when you have to play against these new things and new units, you lose a game and it causes you frustration
because you clearly realize that you didn't lose because you were worse, simply because someone with time learned something new or stolen, and you didn't, and when you lose 3-0, in the case of kaiserklein, it generates terrible frustration.

for example i hate playing against african and mexico civs as i lose every match no matter who the opponent is.
i've seen a lot of meta changes like militia nerf etc so i believe the game can improve even more over time
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Re: Bye

Post by Adribird »

The reality is that an RTS must know how to separate and satisfy the competitive and casual scene in order to be successful. If one of the 2 points fails, the game is destined to have very few players or be dead. You can't have a big medium/long-term boost without it. It should separate other type of modes in terms of balance.

Another reality, based on my experience of playing RTS for more than 20 years, is that the more depth a game of this genre and at these times (and even in other genres) has, the less competitive it becomes.

I've said it and I'll say it a thousand times more: A game with more than 20 civilizations (with its asymmetry), +300 different units, hundreds of metropolis cards, new resources (influence), new mechanics, many politicians and more than 100 maps is fine for the casual player, but in the competitive scene you have to limit a lot to be balanced, fun to play and fun to watch for the viewer to understand.

- We need a ranked system (with elo + Legacy rank) similar to what is TODAY AoE4 in terms of bans, map limitation, penalties and seeing the map before playing the game.

- Pathing and optimization should be improved once and for all (FPS drops and overheating when playing multiple matchs).

- There must be a maximum number of civilizations per tournament.

- The cards in the metropolis should be limited, the observer mode should be improved to have an interface that the public understands and reference streamers that explain things well.

Very personal opinion: I would like to play this game one day with the villagers at 50f and without cards from the metropolis, adjusting some civilizations and TPs to that change.

Sometimes i don't know why I say that if they only listen to the usual 2-3 players and then we are in the situation we are in.
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Re: Bye

Post by RefluxSemantic »

@Adribird I feel like you are confusing depth and width (for the lack of a better word). Adding more mechanics generally doesnt increase depth. Depth is something that arises when there is a set of limited mechanics that have deeply complex interactions. When you add more and more mechanics, you will generally disturb any complex interactions present.
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Re: Bye

Post by Adribird »

RefluxSemantic wrote: ↑
23 Jul 2022, 15:17
@Adribird I feel like you are confusing depth and width (for the lack of a better word). Adding more mechanics generally doesnt increase depth. Depth is something that arises when there is a set of limited mechanics that have deeply complex interactions. When you add more and more mechanics, you will generally disturb any complex interactions present.
If I were to remove the shipping mechanic, I would be removing an important mechanic in the game, therefore, I am reducing depth and the strong strategic difficulty.

The more civilizations you must meet and the more extra content they add without limit, competitively it will remain dead. Thanks to fellow GKShaman (and a few others) for trying to keep Microsoft from forgetting about the game altogether, thanks to that alone there's a decent tournament come, but thet underlying issue will still be there.
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Re: Bye

Post by RefluxSemantic »

I think I misunderstood your post actually and in fact we agree. My apologies.

Though I wouldnt really touch the state of legacy in terms of depth. The game had an extremely satisfying level of depth imo. Any less depth and it would probably become a solvable problem. There is generally a very particular balance here. If a game is too simple, it essentially becomes solvable and thus boring (ie tic tac toe). If a game is too complex, it can become impossible to assess what actually works and the game in fact becomes unstrategic. Aoe3 has always been leaning towards the solvable side of the spectrum, which is something that I think most old school players liked. If you simplify it even more, it might just become shallow.
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Re: Bye

Post by DayanG »

Adribird wrote: ↑
23 Jul 2022, 14:41
The reality is that an RTS must know how to separate and satisfy the competitive and casual scene in order to be successful. If one of the 2 points fails, the game is destined to have very few players or be dead. You can't have a big medium/long-term boost without it. It should separate other type of modes in terms of balance.

Another reality, based on my experience of playing RTS for more than 20 years, is that the more depth a game of this genre and at these times (and even in other genres) has, the less competitive it becomes.

I've said it and I'll say it a thousand times more: A game with more than 20 civilizations (with its asymmetry), +300 different units, hundreds of metropolis cards, new resources (influence), new mechanics, many politicians and more than 100 maps is fine for the casual player, but in the competitive scene you have to limit a lot to be balanced, fun to play and fun to watch for the viewer to understand.

- We need a ranked system (with elo + Legacy rank) similar to what is TODAY AoE4 in terms of bans, map limitation, penalties and seeing the map before playing the game.

- Pathing and optimization should be improved once and for all (FPS drops and overheating when playing multiple matchs).

- There must be a maximum number of civilizations per tournament.

- The cards in the metropolis should be limited, the observer mode should be improved to have an interface that the public understands and reference streamers that explain things well.

Very personal opinion: I would like to play this game one day with the villagers at 50f and without cards from the metropolis, adjusting some civilizations and TPs to that change.

Sometimes i don't know why I say that if they only listen to the usual 2-3 players and then we are in the situation we are in.
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Re: Bye

Post by DayanG »

RefluxSemantic wrote: ↑
23 Jul 2022, 21:13
I think I misunderstood your post actually and in fact we agree. My apologies.

Though I wouldnt really touch the state of legacy in terms of depth. The game had an extremely satisfying level of depth imo. Any less depth and it would probably become a solvable problem. There is generally a very particular balance here. If a game is too simple, it essentially becomes solvable and thus boring (ie tic tac toe). If a game is too complex, it can become impossible to assess what actually works and the game in fact becomes unstrategic. Aoe3 has always been leaning towards the solvable side of the spectrum, which is something that I think most old school players liked. If you simplify it even more, it might just become shallow.
A team match or 1v1 is never easy if you have an opponent of the same level, was tad simple? Was vanilla simple? De is simple? (De even more difficult because you have to study the game, a new game compared to the previous one because there are really too many things to study that it is better to change the game because you have to invest too much time studying every single thing). Easy is only when you use cheats or a civilization that is broken and you have to really click 2 buttons to win. I'm referring to part 2 not to the depth of the mechanics and the game.
In my opinion but maybe in 1v1 it will not be quite so it only reports the vanilla civilizations and the game at least in team is more than balanced, it brings back the warchief and tad civilizations and it is the balanced leaves to be desired, more for the tad civ, reports the new DE civ and the game becomes broken.
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Re: Bye

Post by look »

that of a golden age end.
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Re: Bye

Post by MCJim »

That decays fast. How much time does it take?
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Re: Bye

Post by don_artie »

I've decayed on both my accounts many many times haha. I think 2 weeks for first drop, another week for another drop, another week for gone from ladder. Something like that
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Re: Bye

Post by Goodspeed »

If elo ratings are decaying, wouldn't that lead to deflation across the entire ladder?
How doesn't the top elo eventually become 1200?

It's mild as long as people aren't quitting and coming back in droves but still
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Re: Bye

Post by aaryngend »

Goodspeed wrote: ↑
26 Jul 2022, 16:30
If elo ratings are decaying, wouldn't that lead to deflation across the entire ladder?
How doesn't the top elo eventually become 1200?

It's mild as long as people aren't quitting and coming back in droves but still
Cause they get taken out of the system. 4 weeks without a single game and your account vanishes from the ladders. They are simply invisible until the player comes back and plays more.

The ladders would definitely look different if no account would ever get unlisted due to inactivity, just losing elo points every other week.

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