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Netherlands MCJim
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Re: Bye

Post by MCJim »

They should also make an all time ELO list.
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Re: Bye

Post by Goodspeed »

But if they return they keep their decayed rating, thereby deflating the ratings of the people they play against?

Over time that would lead to deflation across the board.
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Re: Bye

Post by fightinfrenchman »

Goodspeed wrote: ↑
26 Jul 2022, 21:20
Over time that would lead to deflation across the board.
Doesn't sound so bad rn
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Re: Bye

Post by aaryngend »

Goodspeed wrote: ↑
26 Jul 2022, 21:20
But if they return they keep their decayed rating, thereby deflating the ratings of the people they play against?

Over time that would lead to deflation across the board.
If they come back. A lot of players, especially the ones who quit shortly after launch, will most likely never be back and if they do, they mostly stick to single player or non-ladder gameplay.
This whole phenomenon is called player retention btw. This is the case for all games, many players jump from game to game, especially in this super-fast and changing times we live in.

On the old jp elo aoe3 site you could filter the ladder to show everybody who has been active since the site launched (May 2009) and put them on a single rankig 'ladder'. Needless to say that that number was over 10-20x as big as the current active players at the time of search (can't remember the exact number anymore).
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Re: Bye

Post by leg[] »

I think this game is for kids. It has a mild curve where I was amused playing it for a short time. It's 'alright'. I tend to win most/all games but wouldn't beat pros every time with their OP card start-egies.

It's mildly amusing to see people spaz out at this game and think like APM or spam clicking will win, and they go like O NO IM LOSING LOL!1 when you outplay them or just send some cannons unexpectedly etc. (Actually from memory I wish they would say soemthing, other than spam '2' '1' or some taunt ever once ina wihle and do some normal chat at least!)

I think that was sort of the appeal is the strategizing part and even the fog-of-war/gambling part like woh look there's more to do but once you do it, it's just 'mission accomplished', nothing else gained in life even by repeating that 100 times.

It's just such a low skill ceiling I can see like a teen being top if they're good at calculus or something like that.

Honestly must be a sort of retard to stay that long playing any such RTS games where either it's:
1) like this, more oriented for teamstack, build order, cards, and some things just don't work at all
2) very balanced, has build order, but micro intensive where little things matter (like SC2)

I also think there must be some mental problem because how can anyone go like 100+ hrs without being good at this game? Some of these people have 1000+ hrs, are not 10 yr olds or teens, and are still playing this and the closest they get above 50% wins is by learning to 'fear 1v1s' and then teamstacking. Is it a human brain thing? That is more interesting to me. It's not 'that' amusing to play the game that long! and not that amusing to learn 'teamwork can rig the game' etc and things like that, at least, I feel I was sort of learning that when I was like 12 making some 'elite clan'. How can adults not see that and keep gambling at it, then whine at 'small/new' change after 10 years of stagnation being the reason they finally leave some mostly dead game? I'd hope the response is: it's so truthful it hurts!

It takes a while to realize it's rigged to be that way as if you can always improve but there is also a 'gambling/randomness' factor. Especially on this more than say AoE2, SC2, and so on.. but don't shoot me I'm just the messenger saying the truth, or like a comedian you are free to hate but I still don't mind.

Tbh who cares 8-)

If you care that much it's like eh. I like Aztecs and had some ggs. I like how they generally always have some chance except against the OP rushing strategies where they are underpowered. But pretty sure you've definitely 'seen everything' then and are gaining almost nothing so I can understand why you'd leave even if it's like a decade late or something like hat. It doesn't take 'that' long and relatively to me 100 hrs is a lot, even if 10x slower, 1000hrs shud be like the endpoint for most. I enjoyed the game but can't see y it'd be so tryhardy and y such players don't realize 'thats howit works'.

I'd imagine going crazy with these so called pros 'studying' and still not learning this with 10000s of hrs

That being said I might be checking to see if this is too offensive/removed cuz I offended the applesauce prince or some thing like that. I always respected pros or those who took time to get good, and even became good at such games myself at some point, admiring the game design/creators, and the build order mechanics, winning good games, losing some, but eh, at top lvl it gets too spazzy even as one who 'did/could do it' at one point, it just is 'not fun'. Some people just 'learn at like 1000x slower pace' I guess lmao.
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Re: Bye

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Post by RefluxSemantic »

If I were you I'd voluntarily remove that post because you sound kinda retarded.
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Re: Bye

Post by Challenger_Marco »

@leg[] you should stop posting honestly ,you are here to annoy everyone
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Re: Bye

Post by leg[] »

Ironic. because the definitionof that word is 'slow'. Hey if you enjoy something, do it, it's fine with me! Anyway you are right, "bye".
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Re: Bye

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Post by iNcog »

>comes to aoe3 forum
>shits on aoe3 and aoe3 players
>'I'm being so offensive haha'
>dips
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Garja wrote: ↑
20 Mar 2020, 21:46
I just hope DE is not going to implement all of the EP changes. Right now it is a big clusterfuck.
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Netherlands Goodspeed
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Re: Bye

Post by Goodspeed »

aaryngend wrote: ↑
26 Jul 2022, 22:57
Goodspeed wrote: ↑
26 Jul 2022, 21:20
But if they return they keep their decayed rating, thereby deflating the ratings of the people they play against?

Over time that would lead to deflation across the board.
If they come back. A lot of players, especially the ones who quit shortly after launch, will most likely never be back and if they do, they mostly stick to single player or non-ladder gameplay.
Some come back and play MP. Repeat that a million times and you've deflated everyone's elo. I'm not saying it would ever happen, just that it's weird design.
The way they solved it with PR iirc is if you were decayed to 25 and started playing again, you would gain PR faster than usual and get back to your old level with relative ease. Maybe the same applies here.
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Re: Bye

Post by Challenger_Marco »

leg[] wrote: ↑
30 Jul 2022, 13:05
Ironic. because the definitionof that word is 'slow'. Hey if you enjoy something, do it, it's fine with me! Anyway you are right, "bye".
Good riddance. Ironic "I would argue logically, you don't truly care nor are a top player" should have reached a new level of "low"
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Netherlands Goodspeed
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Re: Bye

Post by Goodspeed »

leg[] wrote: ↑
30 Jul 2022, 12:53
I think this game is for kids. It has a mild curve where I was amused playing it for a short time. It's 'alright'. I tend to win most/all games but wouldn't beat pros every time with their OP card start-egies.

It's mildly amusing to see people spaz out at this game and think like APM or spam clicking will win, and they go like O NO IM LOSING LOL!1 when you outplay them or just send some cannons unexpectedly etc. (Actually from memory I wish they would say soemthing, other than spam '2' '1' or some taunt ever once ina wihle and do some normal chat at least!)

I think that was sort of the appeal is the strategizing part and even the fog-of-war/gambling part like woh look there's more to do but once you do it, it's just 'mission accomplished', nothing else gained in life even by repeating that 100 times.

It's just such a low skill ceiling I can see like a teen being top if they're good at calculus or something like that.

Honestly must be a sort of retard to stay that long playing any such RTS games where either it's:
1) like this, more oriented for teamstack, build order, cards, and some things just don't work at all
2) very balanced, has build order, but micro intensive where little things matter (like SC2)

I also think there must be some mental problem because how can anyone go like 100+ hrs without being good at this game? Some of these people have 1000+ hrs, are not 10 yr olds or teens, and are still playing this and the closest they get above 50% wins is by learning to 'fear 1v1s' and then teamstacking. Is it a human brain thing? That is more interesting to me. It's not 'that' amusing to play the game that long! and not that amusing to learn 'teamwork can rig the game' etc and things like that, at least, I feel I was sort of learning that when I was like 12 making some 'elite clan'. How can adults not see that and keep gambling at it, then whine at 'small/new' change after 10 years of stagnation being the reason they finally leave some mostly dead game? I'd hope the response is: it's so truthful it hurts!

It takes a while to realize it's rigged to be that way as if you can always improve but there is also a 'gambling/randomness' factor. Especially on this more than say AoE2, SC2, and so on.. but don't shoot me I'm just the messenger saying the truth, or like a comedian you are free to hate but I still don't mind.

Tbh who cares 8-)

If you care that much it's like eh. I like Aztecs and had some ggs. I like how they generally always have some chance except against the OP rushing strategies where they are underpowered. But pretty sure you've definitely 'seen everything' then and are gaining almost nothing so I can understand why you'd leave even if it's like a decade late or something like hat. It doesn't take 'that' long and relatively to me 100 hrs is a lot, even if 10x slower, 1000hrs shud be like the endpoint for most. I enjoyed the game but can't see y it'd be so tryhardy and y such players don't realize 'thats howit works'.

I'd imagine going crazy with these so called pros 'studying' and still not learning this with 10000s of hrs

That being said I might be checking to see if this is too offensive/removed cuz I offended the applesauce prince or some thing like that. I always respected pros or those who took time to get good, and even became good at such games myself at some point, admiring the game design/creators, and the build order mechanics, winning good games, losing some, but eh, at top lvl it gets too spazzy even as one who 'did/could do it' at one point, it just is 'not fun'. Some people just 'learn at like 1000x slower pace' I guess lmao.
Sick post. Having realized AoE3 just lacks the depth to keep someone with your capacities interested, maybe you should try Go. Comes highly recommended
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Re: Bye

Post by dansil92 »

understandable, have a nice day
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Re: Bye

Post by Ardeshir »

Guys pls the biggest problem with all 3 of AoEII, III and IV is longevity and growth of all 3. This sort of bickering over storms in a teacup, caring about other casual players and bad habits or other advanced players and burnout/inactivity is silliness. AoEIV about to surpass Sc2 as the most top-end weighted scene by tournament winnings and creator interest and it looks like it's suffering the same fate as AoEIII & AoEO did with a bad first impression being near irreversible despite most of the problems being fixed. AoEIII still seems to lack a little polish with observer bugs and new civ power/mechanics creep. AoEII... well their fanbase are asshats and their content creators the establishment of the series so they've gotta be careful that they've still got appeal aside from being "the big game with money and the most dev focus (for now)".

Hope a lot of your old guard returns though, I know the feeling there. Sad not seeing TheMista or ZertoN in AoEO, Drongo in AoEIII or GUA and Soldier (aside from a KOTOW run or two) in either AoEIII or AoEO atm. All these other ESOC champs goin inactive cus they hate the flavour of the new civs and just how many new mechanics they bring in at once sucks. Wanna joke about don't forget you're here forever or some bs but prob not all that healthy
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Re: Bye

Post by DayanG »

Slowly I am accepting the changes of Aoe3De and the fate it knows having, honestly I have seen rts games that had great competitive potential but have been abandoned by the developers, I just say enjoy this product even if it is not complete, poorly made or as you want to define it because once support for aoe3De is finished the game could almost completely die. Having said that bye!
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Re: Bye

Post by Goodspeed »

Ardeshir wrote: ↑
31 Jul 2022, 01:48
AoEIV about to surpass Sc2 as the most top-end weighted scene by tournament winnings and creator interest and it looks like it's suffering the same fate as AoEIII & AoEO did with a bad first impression being near irreversible despite most of the problems being fixed.
Define "most", "problems" and "fixed"
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Re: Bye

Post by Ardeshir »

Goodspeed wrote: ↑
31 Jul 2022, 22:54
Define "most", "problems" and "fixed"
In AoEIII's case? All the improvements ESOC patch added for TAD. Plus the expansions themselves helping flesh out the original map pool. And with DE we're just waiting on all these new factions to be balanced better and the meta to settle accordingly (and tourney officials to pick good maps :uglylol: ). Map editor's working now, they just need to fix replays.

AoEO's? By the time of the shutdown, the game had gone from 2 to 6 playable civs, fleshed out the PvE content, and PvP was starting to be balanced well. Now with Project Celeste it's got the most content-rich PvE of any RTS, another civ released (and another only months away), triple the PvP & skirmish maps it had at the shutdown, more game modes for PvP, better balance, etc. It's biggest problem is reaching a critical mass of PvP activity and holding onto it outside of tournament/seasonal event/new civ or pvp map releases.

AoEIV trends toward better balance, more features, and more maps the longer you give it. It's really custom content players and campaign players that got screwed hardest early too.
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Re: Bye

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Post by Challenger_Marco »

Ardeshir wrote: ↑
31 Jul 2022, 01:48
Hope a lot of your old guard returns though, I know the feeling there. Sad not seeing TheMista or ZertoN in AoEO, Drongo in AoEIII or GUA and Soldier (aside from a KOTOW run or two) in either AoEIII or AoEO atm. All these other ESOC champs goin inactive cus they hate the flavour of the new civs and just how many new mechanics they bring in at once sucks.
Most old guards won't return they have reached their prime/peak when the game was at peak competitive level.Many got old and value life over aoe3 and some are fed with big changes done to aoe3 de as it becomes totally re-learning the game when they don't get much leisure time it's just hard for ppl to learn & stick to the game,grind and be at the same level as before.

The game (aoe3) offers less money & nothing is profitable (from streaming/content creation) ppl who where the big bucks is rn which is aoe4.They are not inactive coz of adding new content. They play in some age series which is better than not seeing them & it's interesting to see how they perform there.
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Re: Bye

Post by Challenger_Marco »

@Ardeshir bruh you do realise RTS is a niche genre and if you don't do a good first impression it's near impossible to comeback ,just that aoe2 is lucky it received support in 2013 & was a hit doesn't mean it will be the same in all games. The genre itself has high entry ceiling level you gotta grind to understand things. So yeah it's a little too late fix/add new things but we can only speculate what can happen AOE4 is a good test for it.
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Re: Bye

Post by Ardeshir »

As the guy who propped up AoEO's competitive scene the most the past 3 years for literally nothing, I think I do realise lmao
Challenger_Marco wrote: ↑
01 Aug 2022, 14:56
The game (aoe3) offers less money & nothing is profitable (from streaming/content creation) ppl who where the big bucks is rn which is aoe4.
Nope. AoE3 is the easiest to get viewership in relative to workload and branding, followed by 2 then 4. Just cause the tournament prizepools are smaller doesn't mean the youtube audience also is.
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Re: Bye

Post by Goodspeed »

Ardeshir wrote: ↑
01 Aug 2022, 13:53
Goodspeed wrote: ↑
31 Jul 2022, 22:54
Define "most", "problems" and "fixed"
AoEIV trends toward better balance, more features, and more maps the longer you give it. It's really custom content players and campaign players that got screwed hardest early too.
The main problem though is the game itself. It's just not good enough. Not enough fun to the vast majority of players. That will never be fixed.

These "first impressions are everything" takes ignore that plenty of games were shit at release and went on to have massive player bases. If the game is addicting enough, you don't care that the UI sucks or that there are a couple of broken civs. Also, AoE4's release wasn't even that bad.
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Re: Bye

Post by Challenger_Marco »

Ardeshir wrote: ↑
02 Aug 2022, 08:42
Nope. AoE3 is the easiest to get viewership in relative to workload and branding, followed by 2 then 4. Just cause the tournament prizepools are smaller doesn't mean the youtube audience also is.
Nope?? Aoe3 is the hardest to get viewership compared to aoe2 & aoe4 ,YT audience are casual players ,If you are starting new channel and making content for aoe2 it's just way to get noticed ...there are many creators they will always lean to the best once.Aoe4 might be better but the playerbase is not great which means less viewership again.

But also from where are you drawing these conclusions??
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Re: Bye

Post by Ardeshir »

Here, especially the last month

Covering qualifiers for an S tier AoE3 tourney alone is getting me much more viewership atm than casting multiple tourneys and qualifiers at once for 2 and 4, and even being the first English caster of Espanol/South American events for 2 (did some games for a Portuguese tourney quali for AoE4 at one stage as well). Am probably the best channel to use as evidence for comparisons as I've not built a serious following in any of the 3 games, and am probably the only person covering all 3 at once.

Right now my top vids for the past 30 days are all red bull aoe2 and 4 content followed by deathmatch world cup for aoe2 and the warchief club for aoe4.... Just kidding, the top4 are KOTOW qualifier games, followed by a returning-to-aoeo game and the aoeo install video.
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Re: Bye

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Post by robo »

Ardeshir wrote: ↑
02 Aug 2022, 10:13
Covering qualifiers for an S tier AoE3 tourney alone is getting me much more viewership atm than casting multiple tourneys and qualifiers at once for 2 and 4, and even being the first English caster of Espanol/South American events for 2 (did some games for a Portuguese tourney quali for AoE4 at one stage as well). Am probably the best channel to use as evidence for comparisons as I've not built a serious following in any of the 3 games, and am probably the only person covering all 3 at once.
I don't think you are actually a good example. If you had 4 separate channels covering each game that all started at the same time, then you could compare them and see which one grows the most organically.

Currently, your channel is such a mess of mixed content that it will probably never be picked up by the algorithm, so each video's viewership is likely based almost entirely on whether you share/promote it on outside sources (reddit/discord/forums etc) and how successful/well received they are on those platforms, and not due to which game has the most viewers on your channel.

What do I mean by this?

Well, for starters, casting a Spanish-speaking community tournament is unlikely to draw in any viewers, as that community speaks Spanish, and presumably watches Spanish content creators, so will not go looking for English casts of their tournaments, and a normal English audience probably has no idea who these players are, so unless the games are absolutely amazing and are clickbait well, are again unlikely to draw in viewers,

Following that, if I am an AoE2 (or any other game) viewer who watches your content, and only 1/4 of your videos are AoE2 (and some of those I'm not interested in as its a random tournament from some other community) the algorithm will pick up that I don't watch many of your videos and will recommend them less. Which means I will see them less and be less likely to watch them, which further perpetuates the cycle of not being recommended the videos etc.

Further to that point, you seem to upload so many videos per day, that it's impossible for someone to watch all of them, even if they were interested in every game which again reduces your impact on the algorithm.
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Re: Bye

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Robo hitting hard.

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