The price of the russian musketeer is not right

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European Union TranceGate
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The price of the russian musketeer is not right

Post by TranceGate »

Hi, I was curious to calculate the Russian troops with their -25% discount on batches. So I undertake this undertaking and I notice that the price of the musketeer is not right, it is not really discounted by 25%, now I do not know why this price is not fair and it's not right changes little from the current price but if Russian troops price -25% so it must be, if it is for a budgetary fact (I doubt) you cannot balance in this way because you have broken a Russian mechanic and therefore you have to interact elsewhere, but knowing the Russians on Aoe3DE and having played them both in 1v1 and in team do not it is a civilization or indeed I would say quite resized compared to others. Here are the calculations I made to explain this:

Russian units: Price reduced -25%
Batch units:
10 Strelet: 375 :food: 100 :wood:
5 Musketeer: 281 :food: 95 :coin: :hmm:
4 Halberdier: 150 :food: 210 :coin:

Singolar units:
1 Strelet: 38 :food: 10 :wood:
1 Musketeer: 57 :food: 19 :coin:
1 Halberdier: 38 :food: 53 :coin:

Calculations:
Strelet: 38 :food: *10 = 380 :food: ; 10 :wood: *10 = 100 :wood:
Musketeer: 57 :food: *5 = 285 :food: ; 19 :coin: *5 = 95 :coin: :hmm:
Halberdier: 38 :food: *4 = 152 :food: ; 53 :coin: *4 = 212 :coin:

Standard Units:
Strelet: Only Russia has this unit and I don't know what other troops its price is based on.
Musketeer: 75 :food: *5 = 375 :food: ; 25 :coin: *5 = 125 :coin: ; -25% = 281.25 :food: ; 93.75 :coin:
Halberdier: 50 :food: *4 = 200 :food: ; 70 :coin: *4 = 280 :coin: ; -25% = 150 :food: ; 210 :coin:

Conclusions:
In the game:
5 Musketeer: 281 :food: 95 :coin:
How it should be:
5 Musketeer: 281 :food: 93 :coin:
The price of the other troops as you can see is right.
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Latvia harcha
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Re: The cost of the russian musketeer is not right

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Post by harcha »

It is the USA and their NATO dogs trying to nerf the glorious Russia...
POC wrote:Also I most likely know a whole lot more than you.
POC wrote:Also as an objective third party, and near 100% accuracy of giving correct information, I would say my opinions are more reliable than yours.
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Re: The price of the russian musketeer is not right

Post by dansil92 »

See this is hilarious because i remember when EP patch adjusted the cost
``Russians
Starting crates fixed to 600f 200w
Musketeer batch cost adjusted to 280f, 95c (from 281.25f, 93.75c)``
It was 93.75 on TAD then when ep9 was basically ported over to de, the change went along with it
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Latvia harcha
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Re: The price of the russian musketeer is not right

Post by harcha »

https://www.ageofempires.com/news/aoe3d ... ne-update/
The Russians
Starting crates fixed to 600f 200w
UNITS & BUILDINGS

Musketeer batch cost increased to 280f, 95c (from 281.25f, 93.75c)
:hmm:
POC wrote:Also I most likely know a whole lot more than you.
POC wrote:Also as an objective third party, and near 100% accuracy of giving correct information, I would say my opinions are more reliable than yours.
European Union TranceGate
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Re: The price of the russian musketeer is not right

Post by TranceGate »

dansil92 wrote: ↑
12 Aug 2022, 12:35
See this is hilarious because i remember when EP patch adjusted the cost
``Russians
Starting crates fixed to 600f 200w
Musketeer batch cost adjusted to 280f, 95c (from 281.25f, 93.75c)``
It was 93.75 on TAD then when ep9 was basically ported over to de, the change went along with it
If the math is not an opinion, the real price is what I wrote and if Russia really has -25% of the reduced price for each batch why not keep this -25% at its real -25%? No longer need to rely on ep9 balances this is another game.
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Re: The price of the russian musketeer is not right

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Post by dansil92 »

this is great because I can tell there's a new, fresh generation of aoe3 players that doesn't know zois hatred of ever so slightly less than round numbers and i think that's beautiful
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France Le Hussard sur le toit
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Re: The price of the russian musketeer is not right

Post by Le Hussard sur le toit »

Even more fun : the total prize of a strelet should be 37,5f+7,5w, they forgot to apply the 25% reduction to the wood cost. You can see this because the kill xp for a strelet is 6, which corresponds to a total ressource cost of 60. 75% of 60 gives 45, so the total ressource cost of a strelet should be 45, which at 37,5f gives a wood cost of 7,5 before rounding up.
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European Union TranceGate
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Re: The price of the russian musketeer is not right

Post by TranceGate »

Le Hussard sur le toit wrote: ↑
12 Aug 2022, 14:31
Even more fun : the total prize of a strelet should be 37,5f+7,5w, they forgot to apply the 25% reduction to the wood cost. You can see this because the kill xp for a strelet is 6, which corresponds to a total ressource cost of 60. 75% of 60 gives 45, so the total ressource cost of a strelet should be 45, which at 37,5f gives a wood cost of 7,5 before rounding up.
Exactly, I did not understand the reason for this. What developers were thinking way back in 2005.
Applying the -25% to the strelets you would have to change some economic mechanics most likely otherwise it would be very strong as a thing or even op.
European Union TranceGate
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Re: The price of the russian musketeer is not right

Post by TranceGate »

However if you want to look at these calculations well otherwise the game is as it is I have pointed this out amen, so much at this rate this game will not have much future.
Having said that bye!
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Czech Republic EAGLEMUT
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Re: The price of the russian musketeer is not right

Post by EAGLEMUT »

The rusketeer price is right to the extent that I've personally, intentionally set it at 76% :coin: cost. Originally as part of the EP7 release.
As dansil mentioned, the driving force behind this change was to adjust the resulting cost to a whole integer and avoid the problematic decimal numbers.
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European Union TranceGate
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Re: The price of the russian musketeer is not right

Post by TranceGate »

EAGLEMUT wrote: ↑
12 Aug 2022, 15:35
The rusketeer price is right to the extent that I've personally, intentionally set it at 76% :coin: cost. Originally as part of the EP7 release.
As dansil mentioned, the driving force behind this change was to adjust the resulting cost to a whole integer and avoid the problematic decimal numbers.
Why not leave it as it was on tad? What was wrong with that?
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Re: The price of the russian musketeer is not right

Post by EAGLEMUT »

TranceGate wrote: ↑
12 Aug 2022, 15:41
EAGLEMUT wrote: ↑
12 Aug 2022, 15:35
The rusketeer price is right to the extent that I've personally, intentionally set it at 76% :coin: cost. Originally as part of the EP7 release.
As dansil mentioned, the driving force behind this change was to adjust the resulting cost to a whole integer and avoid the problematic decimal numbers.
Why not leave it as it was on tad? What was wrong with that?
The decimal result; 93.75 coin
It means that the cost displayed as 93 coin on UI, but if you had exactly 93 coin you in fact could not train the batch.
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European Union TranceGate
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Re: The price of the russian musketeer is not right

Post by TranceGate »

EAGLEMUT wrote: ↑
12 Aug 2022, 15:50
TranceGate wrote: ↑
12 Aug 2022, 15:41
EAGLEMUT wrote: ↑
12 Aug 2022, 15:35
The rusketeer price is right to the extent that I've personally, intentionally set it at 76% :coin: cost. Originally as part of the EP7 release.
As dansil mentioned, the driving force behind this change was to adjust the resulting cost to a whole integer and avoid the problematic decimal numbers.
Why not leave it as it was on tad? What was wrong with that?
The decimal result; 93.75 coin
It means that the cost displayed as 93 coin on UI, but if you had exactly 93 coin you in fact could not train the batch.
What game file can I find this in? On protoy there is not this but only that of the standard musketeers
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Re: The price of the russian musketeer is not right

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Post by Mitoe »

TranceGate wrote: ↑
12 Aug 2022, 16:47
EAGLEMUT wrote: ↑
12 Aug 2022, 15:50
Show hidden quotes
The decimal result; 93.75 coin
It means that the cost displayed as 93 coin on UI, but if you had exactly 93 coin you in fact could not train the batch.
What game file can I find this in? On protoy there is not this but only that of the standard musketeers
I believe their musketeers are actually using the same unit in the protoy, but Russia has a shadow-tech applied at the start of the game to make them weaker and cheaper. You might have more luck looking in techtreey, but I'm not sure what it would be called
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Re: The price of the russian musketeer is not right

Post by dansil92 »

Mitoe wrote: ↑
12 Aug 2022, 21:03
TranceGate wrote: ↑
12 Aug 2022, 16:47
Show hidden quotes
What game file can I find this in? On protoy there is not this but only that of the standard musketeers
I believe their musketeers are actually using the same unit in the protoy, but Russia has a shadow-tech applied at the start of the game to make them weaker and cheaper. You might have more luck looking in techtreey, but I'm not sure what it would be called
russiaAge0 iirc
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Re: The price of the russian musketeer is not right

Post by helln00 »

isnt weird decimals also the reason why the consulate HP and ATK buffs were set to 7% cause it caused that stacking buff?
European Union TranceGate
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Re: The price of the russian musketeer is not right

Post by TranceGate »

I am looking at the file and I see that if I change the percentage of the cost from 75% to 74% on the screen it comes out 92c and effectively removes 93c which would be right but surely you already knew and had tested this. A weird thing is because there is a piece of code that says this:
<effect type = "Data" amount = "0.75" subtype = "Cost" resource = "Gold" relativity = "BasePercent">
<target type = "ProtoUnit"> Strelet </target>
</effect>
Was it initially thought of making the strelet cost money?
European Union TranceGate
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Re: The price of the russian musketeer is not right

Post by TranceGate »

Isn't there a way to change the value in relativity? Does the game only read Basepercent?
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Re: The price of the russian musketeer is not right

Post by duckzilla »

Mitoe wrote: ↑
12 Aug 2022, 21:03
I believe their musketeers are actually using the same unit in the protoy, but Russia has a shadow-tech applied at the start of the game to make them weaker and cheaper. You might have more luck looking in techtreey, but I'm not sure what it would be called
You can see this being the case also when upgrading the units. The vet upgrade improves strel hp from 72 to 90, which is a 25% buff. But that is only because the base stats of strels (and ruskets) are actually 90hp/10dmg (150hp/23dmg). This fact makes russian inf even stronger in late game, because the -20% starting debuff decreases in relevance with every new upgrade while the -25% cost buff is still there.
Whatever is written above: this is no financial advice.

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