Petition to buff grenadier unit attack

[dutchdude117]

From this forum post https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/petit ... ack/220973

I propose that we buff grenadier base stats to make them more viable as a unit.
Grenadier (Age of Empires III) | Age of Empires Series Wiki | Fandom 1)%2C%20Russians%2C%20and%20Swedes.

Currently they have base attack of 16 siege damage, I propose that gets increased to 20 siege damage.

The goal of this change is to make grenadier scale a bit better in late game, by buffing their base stats, the upgrades that are applied to the unit will be more impactful.
This will also make grenadier more viable in the early game.
Alternative: give grenadiers a multiplier against infantry of 1.25
Currently they have 12 range, I propose that get increased by 1 for each upgrade tech researched
-13 range for veteran, 14 range for guard, 15 range for imperial
-which means that will have further increased range if Hand Mortars home city card is sent, maybe that should be adjusted it probably is too strong

The goal of this change is to lessen the reliance of a home city shipment to make the unit usable, instead grenadiers should be able to be useful even with out it.
Currently they have a cost of 120f and 60c, I propose that the cost get reduced to 110f 55c

The goal of this change is to make it easier to mass a functional number of grenadier.
Currently they have a train time of 42 seconds (which is only 3 seconds shorter than a falconet at 45 seconds), I propose that get changed to 38 seconds (which matches the train time of the Ottoman Humbaraci)

Same goal as above, make it easier to mass a function number of grenadiers
Another idea would be to rework the hand mortars card, in its current state it is not worth sending as it does not have enough impact as a fortress age shipment.

in addition / instead of to increasing range, grenadier rate of fire can be increased from 3.0 to 2.5
alternative: in addition to increasing range, 15% damage increase
alternative: in addition to increasing range, also ships a military wagon
Additionally I think that civs who only have the 4 grenadier shipment (Dutch), should be replaced with the 5 grenadier shipment
and the 7 grenadier shipment should be replaced with the 9 grenadier shipment (British, Dutch)

it is simply not economical to send 4 grenadier shipment in its current state (each grenadier is worth 180 multiply by 4 = 720) for a fortress age shipment (generally considered to be worth 1000 resources). Same logic for the 7 grenadier shipment (only worth 1260 resources for an industrial age shipment is a joke)
the math only gets worse if the unit cost is lowered as proposed above.
If all of these proposed changes were adapted to the game, grenadiers might become too strong, and we might have the fiasco that occurred in the beta of DE, so it is something to be careful for.
But with the large negative multiplier that grenadiers currently have to cavalry and artillery it seems unlikely to me.

I think grenadier could serve an important role in age of empires 3, to create a counter to the “deathball” type playstyles by providing alternatives other than cannons to Area Of Effect damage to European civilizations .

[dutchdude117]

http://aoe3.heavengames.com/cgi-bin/for ... 34382,0,10

huh... interesting thread about damage caps.

Incendiary grenades still have this same "bug" all these years later.

I just did some limited testing in the scenario editor with grenadiers. When you research Incendiary Grenades at the arsenal, the area of effect goes to 4 (opposed to 3). Unfortunately, Incendiary Grenades does not increase the damage (no + %) and therefore, the damage cap does not increase either. The net effect is that there is no extra damage done. It may cover an area of 4, but the damage cap cuts it off before any extra damage can be done.

In order to fix this, Incendiary Grenades needs to either give a +% attack or a multiplier to units. As it is now, the additional area is useless because of the damage cap. Another option is to increase the damage cap on grenadiers but this would make all of them powerful, not just with Incendiary Grenades.

However, the multiplier towards buildings for Incendiary Grenades does work. If you think 400 wood + 300 gold is worth a 30% bonus to buildings, then by all means research it. The reason this works is because the damage cap increases linearly with the +% damage or added multipliers. The multiplier increases the damage cap and damage. If you are researching it for the bonus to area of effect, do not, it is useless.

[dutchdude117]

Kaiserklein comes in clutch?
viewtopic.php?t=7577#top

I think its the total damage that can be split into the several units of the area. For example if you have 10 attack and 30 cap, you will deal 10 to the unit you aim and then up to 20 other damage split into other units in the area. I think the aim of this cap is to avoid splash damage to be op, even if you have 10 units all grouped super close to each other the area attack wont damage all units because of the cap.
At least thats my guess