Feedback on New Code of Conduct

[kaister]

@Joshua667746 I really love the way you manage to write a wall of text regarding the rules on ESOCtv, yet said rules are super vague and nothing is really clarified and even at the end of all those words I'm more confused than I was before reading them.

[Joshua667746]

Maybe read them more carefully @kaister, it makes a lot of sense. If you have an issue with them I suggest you contribute positively to a community that needs it most.

This is my last statement on the matter, the community team is doing its job at moderation. If you have any issues with the twitch chat you can contact me directly.

[kaister]

@Joshua667746 your Severity system goes by Minor violation, Medium Violation, and Serious infringement, but bans are determined by Minor violations, Moderate violations and Aggravated violations. A method of converting Serious Infringements into Aggravated violations would be good for starters.

However, as soon as any of these attacks go from common comments to attacks on a person (opinions are fine, but personal attacks aren't) then timeouts will be initiated.

So when these attacks go from comments to an attack, that's when they draw a line? but they're already an attack? ????

Further, the level of cursing and insults (ie the moderation level) is going to be brought down from a 4 to a 2. As a result, you'll be able to talk a little more freely in chat.

My helpfulness of thread index reader went from a 5 to a 3 reading this one.

Half the people who still play this game or watch esoc with any consistentcy have been timeout'd/banned for seemingly no reason at an absurd rate these days.

I suggest you contribute positively

All I ask of you is to maybe selfreflect and ask yourself if your actions since taking over the esoctv stream manager position have enhanced or detracted from the average viewer. Maybe throw up a poll. Because I can't imagine the average viewer enjoys needless timeouts and being censored for saying the word noob.

[Challenger_Marco]

Further, the level of cursing and insults (ie the moderation level) is going to be brought down from a 4 to a 2. As a result, you'll be able to talk a little more freely in chat.

My helpfulness of thread index reader went from a 5 to a 3 reading this one.

Half the people who still play this game or watch esoc with any consistentcy have been timeout'd/banned for seemingly no reason at an absurd rate these days.

For context @Joshua667746 is talking about the Twitch AutoMod.

The ESOC's Twitch AutoMod was set to level 4 leading to chat grievances . Therefore the level of AutoMod is set to 2 which was the case before this so it's restored back to normal . There should be no problem henceforth.

I am providing more clarity regarding Twitch AutoMod Below ,the information is publicly available on internet & still i'm providing it to save people's time doing research on it.

[Goodspeed]

My position on chat moderation may be controversial but I believe quite strongly in one very simple concept when moderating anything: A moderator should be a tool of the community.

Therefore a mod should only take actions that the community (democratically) agrees should be taken. The hard part about a moderator's job is to figure out what the community wants. The results of below polls might get you started on that, but I'd recommend making similar polls for Twitch chat moderation.
viewtopic.php?f=314&t=19308
viewtopic.php?f=314&t=19344

Automod should be on level 1 at most. You shouldn't be moderating for the sake of it. You should be moderating only when enough people are calling for it, or when you know it's something the community is not okay with from experience. When a chat fight gets out of hand and people are clearly over it, a mod should step in. When someone is being particularly toxic and the community is calling for them to be banned, or have done in a similar previous situation, a mod should step in. But if there's no one complaining, why are you moderating? You're wasting your own time for nobody's benefit.

On "bullying": If people are being toxic or stupid enough for the community to bully them out of the chat, they should just get out of the chat and do some self-reflecting. You shouldn't be protecting people like breeze, for example. If he wants to be treated better, he needs to change his own behavior. By protecting people like him you are condoning his behavior, which other people will then replicate.

[don_artie]

Man esoc really went to shit

[Pedrownage]

Just to add my ban story as well, this happened when people in chat were saying Sweden OP and such. I chimed in mentioning that we could at least all agree on the fact that Sweden is noob civ, and easiest to play after Otto. This resulted in 10 minute ban! And then every single message I wanted to send after that had to be checked by mod before sending. Even though I had not attacked anyone or used any offensive language! Not a good experience as an avid viewer.

So I agree that someone in chat was a bit trigger happy with the sword, let's hope mods will chill down a bit...

[Stereo Typ]

hi guys , just wanted to give some feedback on the new COC.

I got banned on ESOC channel for saying breeze is otto vs kaiser dutch. So i wonder where did i broke the COC , or if the mods are just bad or abusing their little power ? idk. We can also see on that screen that someone also say it , i hope he got ban aswell ?

Been years that ESOC is suffering from bad moderators , but hell yeah we come to a point where even saying civ names grant you a ban This was full guessing , no need to be so smart to guess it in g5 , but looks like mods couldnt do it and prefer ban instead of thinking.

we could also discuss the fact that ESOC is casting with delay a series that is on revnak stream without delay , but oh well , we wont go that far for ESOC , first they should respect their casters i guess.

I apparently got banned now for saying Kaisers whines more justified than most others xD
where can I read this apparently pretty strict CoC since its hard to act according to it apparently for tons of people?
good job mods...

Yeah ngl i still not have any answer about my ban becomes quite tuff to talk on ESOC TV but w/e

On a positive note, I kindly asked Joshua for an unban and he did it while reminding me of the CoC...

[Stereo Typ]

illegal activities according to which country

wondering too.
for the record im allowed to own and smoke weed

Maybe read them more carefully @kaister, it makes a lot of sense. If you have an issue with them I suggest you contribute positively to a community that needs it most.

This is my last statement on the matter, the community team is doing its job at moderation. If you have any issues with the twitch chat you can contact me directly.

no tbh its not tangible really for a lot of people... like I did get time outed and banned for opinions, maybe harsh opinions, but still opinions and not insults ^^ above you write thats ok. apparently we therefore have either different definitions of what is an insult or mods are going rogue...

[speedflyer]

like what is this

It's next level COC , dont worry !

[speedflyer]

Hi everyone,
The reason for being banned is simply because you did not follow the chat rules. There's nothing else to it. The chat rules will not change until the community is more respectful in chat.
The bannings themselves are going to follow a timeout process of increasing the number of days, according to the text below. So less harsh timeouts will take their place.
Further, the level of cursing and insults (ie the moderation level) is going to be brought down from a 4 to a 2. As a result, you'll be able to talk a little more freely in chat.
However, as soon as any of these attacks go from common comments to attacks on a person (opinions are fine, but personal attacks aren't) then timeouts will be initiated.
If you're unsure about any of this, read the CoC or contact me at Joshua667746#0466 and I'd be happy to explain the reasons for being banned and any steps forward.

TLDR; Automod chilling out, bans turning into timeouts.

*****
Severity system
Minor violation: by mistake or misunderstanding of a user, it is easily solved by chatting and with a friendly warning.
Medium Violation: A violation taken with foresight and knowledge of this code of conduct or a large number followed by minor violations.
Serious infringement: An infringement made specifically against one of the rules and for the purpose of creating discord or havoc.

Duration of bans
Minor violations: A user will only be banned for minor violations when they have repeatedly committed a minor violation after several warnings and the violation is upgraded to a moderate violation, as they are acting insubordinate to the moderator's prior instructions.
Moderate violations: If a user commits a moderate violation, he will receive a suspension of 1 day, the second time, it will be 3 days, the third time will be for a duration of 7 days, the fourth will be for one month, and the fifth will be for one year and the sixth and final will be permanent.
Aggravated violations: When committing a very serious violation, the user will be banned for at least 7 days and the staff is responsible for discussing whether this period is extended or becomes permanent.
Any infractions that are very serious or illegal activities will result in a permanent ban of the user without the possibility of returning under any circumstances.
*****

So please tell me where was my violation of ur fucking chat rules , when i guessed the civs ? , then please tell me where was the violation of ur rules when i asked who timed me out?, then again tell me where was the violation when i say that there is no delay on breeze channel?? please tell me and dont forget to unban me. Or maybe it was an illegal infraction ? maybe ? Even your own team sayed it was totally unjustified KEKW. Also can u please justify why i am banned, and not the other guy that say exactly same shit? Jeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeez

U'll slowly but surely kill yourself by doing this , but its okay i'll keep watching everything on others channels since anyway all series are just streamed without lag on other channels. @callentournies
I could have sent you a discord message as u wanted , but its been 3 days , no answers , no unban , so lets do it public.

And u dont have to tell me i broke COC there , i did use the god damn "fucking" word. Jeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeez

[speedflyer]

Show hidden quotes

hi guys , just wanted to give some feedback on the new COC.

I got banned on ESOC channel for saying breeze is otto vs kaiser dutch. So i wonder where did i broke the COC , or if the mods are just bad or abusing their little power ? idk. We can also see on that screen that someone also say it , i hope he got ban aswell ?

Been years that ESOC is suffering from bad moderators , but hell yeah we come to a point where even saying civ names grant you a ban This was full guessing , no need to be so smart to guess it in g5 , but looks like mods couldnt do it and prefer ban instead of thinking.

we could also discuss the fact that ESOC is casting with delay a series that is on revnak stream without delay , but oh well , we wont go that far for ESOC , first they should respect their casters i guess.

I apparently got banned now for saying Kaisers whines more justified than most others xD
where can I read this apparently pretty strict CoC since its hard to act according to it apparently for tons of people?
good job mods...

Yeah ngl i still not have any answer about my ban becomes quite tuff to talk on ESOC TV but w/e

On a positive note, I kindly asked Joshua for an unban and he did it while reminding me of the CoC...

I dont even have to ask him anything ngl , they made poor job , they find solution themself for it.

[LionHeart]

A mod deleted my messages because I said boats and hoes

[edeholland]

It seems so silly that a reason for moderating could just be "because it broke the CoC". You need to actively show why it's harmful. Something breaking the CoC doesn't make it harmful or worth moderating on it's own.

[fightinfrenchman]

My signature was deleted without warning for some reason

[Goodspeed]

Your signature took up half the page so I'm not mad about that one tbh

[fightinfrenchman]

Your signature took up half the page so I'm not mad about that one tbh

Lots of people's posts take up too much space but I don't complain about that

[Goodspeed]

Yes you do

[RefluxSemantic]

Moderation is funny. Some voices here consistently pin any problem on any amount of moderation, as a result of which we've had next to zero moderation.

You cant convince me that has led to a very friendly environment. I think a community will be better off if you just amputate the toxic parts of the community. Could've been a pretty nice place without all the shitposting, fabricated drama, teenage anger, racism and overly aggressive debating.

[Goodspeed]

It would've been a friendly dead place. With a community this size you can't afford aggressive censorship, you'll quite simply run out of people. This is the group you have to work with, for better or worse.

[fightinfrenchman]

Yes you do

It's a great thing for me to do

[iNcog]

I don't think moderation led to an unfriendly environment. I think certain posters did (and I put myself in that group in some circumstances). I also think the environment isn't really that unfriendly.

[RefluxSemantic]

It would've been a friendly dead place. With a community this size you can't afford aggressive censorship, you'll quite simply run out of people. This is the group you have to work with, for better or worse.

Imagine if we had decided to put up with bpdscolony instead of getting rid of him.

I believe that by getting rid of obviously toxic elements, more positive people will return to the forums and engage with the community more. You may disagree, but I dont see your case at all.

[harcha]

i still miss him. sans the offensive stuff ofc

[Goodspeed]

It would've been a friendly dead place. With a community this size you can't afford aggressive censorship, you'll quite simply run out of people. This is the group you have to work with, for better or worse.

Imagine if we had decided to put up with bpdscolony instead of getting rid of him.

I believe that by getting rid of obviously toxic elements, more positive people will return to the forums and engage with the community more. You may disagree, but I dont see your case at all.

We did get rid of bpdscolony, because the community wanted to get rid of him. My position isn't that we should not moderate at all, it's that we should moderate cases where the community as a group decides that we should.

Also, some might think Headkilla is a positive person, I think he's an entitled, closed-minded piece of shit. It's all in the eye of the beholder, which is why the only correct policy is a democratic one.