Inca build orders

[Astaroth]

It is kinda sad how Incas are designed as a boom/turtle civ, yet their lategame is pretty abysmal because their units are mostly subpar and they can't counter artillery.

I really don't get why the devs wanted to give them a weakness to artillery. Sure, historical accuracy, but aztecs can counter artillery as well.

[helln00]

idk isnt the point of their lategame is to spam invisible forts everywhere? artillery cant do shit against those. and their units allow for sniping detectors if they they try to get close, the runners can suicide into armies to snipe them

edit: also the runners can stealth at full speed right?

[blasdg]

Spies.

[lemmings121]

Spies.

Half civs dont have those

[blasdg]

Those have a warchief with 3000 HP, should be enough to kill a building.

[Colonel0tto]

As far as their design goes it seems more oriented around expanding across the map and choking your opponent out of the game. This is very different from simply turtling and booming - you want to aggressively take and hold territory and then use your dominance over resources to build up an overwhelming mass.

Their age 2 is better than their age III because of their extremely powerful archers. They have a card that builds them a second TC in age II, they have a lot of very strong buildings and free ATP. Remember they're supposed to be a civ that's more familiar to AOEII players, who are used to creeping forward across the map with towers and production buildings.

As far as their weakness to artillery goes - have you tried using Huaraca yet? - it only takes 7 Huaraca to 1-shot a falc. 'Ranged Infantry Attack' takes this down to 6. Put them in stagger mode and they'll take minimal casualties as they fire off two volleys before the falcs can respond with their second barrage.

The 'Curare' upgrade also gives their bowmen essentially 60% more damage against artillery by increasing the duration of the poison effect to 8 seconds and the poison damage by 25%. So a fully upgraded jungle bowman in age III is doing 5.25 (21 x 0.75) ranged damage plus 10 poison damage over 8 seconds - 15.25 total. That's 14 shots, in comparison to veteran upgraded skirms who would need 40 shots to kill the falc. Bear in mind that jungle bowman can garrison in Kalankas, so they can fire off their volley and then jump back inside.

Inca are a super weird civ really don't fit the mold of traditional AOEIII civs who either rush or try to age quickly for advanced units. As a result I think they'll take while for our veteran players to figure out.

[blasdg]

On the last page I just summarized the stats of the Kallanka units - the Huaraca is probably the worst anti-artillery unit in the game. Its true that they CAN kill falcs, but nobody runs at you with only falcs, I dont know where the problem is to understand that. In order to reach the cannons you NEED to run into your opponents units because you have less range, you WILL lose 2 - 3 during the first volley of the cannons + other units. Then you wasted a shipment (7 Huaraca) and at least one falc is still there - let me remind you, he was shipping artillery and you were shipping an ANTI-artillery unit and HIS shipment winning is the result?

Also the Jungle Archer have low range and will get shred to pieces by falcs before you can reach them. CAN they kill falcs? Yes ofc, but its in no way resource-efficient or tempo-efficient.

Also the problem gets even worse when your opponents start actually TRAINING cannons. There must be a reason kynesie almost never builds these when fighting against cannons. In fact, I saw him suiciding a lot of units into cannons, Chimu runners, Jungle Archers, Macemen...

[helln00]

Yeah I think the incan counter to cannons (well atleast not culvs) is suicide stealth units and the big button. Also their strongholds can outrange falcs (with upgrades) as well (and even heavy cannons in industria) so the counter might just be to camp in the stronghold

[uberjz]

Inca lategame is abysmal because they can't deal with ranged infantry(not to mention cannons) + walls. Huaracas are just dogshit unusable units, and if you want to siege with other units you have to actually WALK UP to the wall. Terrible.

If Inca got a decent arrow knight like unit they would be pretty good I think.

[helln00]

so umm I only aiz did this once but has anyone done the really cheese build order of tp + fast age up + ship pike + scouting party timing? all timed with the chasqui running right into the opponent's base while they are still aging towards age 2?

edit: and the chasqui being the shipment point right

[blasdg]

Loses to minuteman.
You have no economy at all to fall back on, you have like what, 13 vills and one Kancha house? Btw most civs will be age 2 because shipments need 40 seconds to arrive.

[helln00]

your goal will be to just snipe all nearby buildings, starting with the house that was built in age 1 or the tower that just popped and tps if thats nearby. with that it should be enough to ship 4 lhamas + 700 coin and go age 3. Assuming you remember to shift the shipment point back to the tc and not drop gold in the opponents base.

Remember with the chasqui being the shipment point, you get to the base before your opponent reaches age 2. there is no minuteman

[blasdg]

You all on crack or LSD, I dunno.
Are you seriously telling me that having a few spearmen in the enemies base is going to win you games at a high level? OFC there will be minuteman dude, maybe it takes 2 games but people will simply learn to have the coin for minuteman ready.

And then you actually suggest to send two (!!) shipments to advance to age 3 still with no economy - but then what? What do you do once in age 3?

[Garja]

Inca are just broken. They just boom fast as they are supposed to but also have very easy time defending with buildings if abused. Stronghold still is OP and buys infinite time at the very least.
It's just crap design, turtling potential is too high, houses prob generate too many resources in the long run. Units are meh but doesn't really matter when you outscale the opponent super hard.

[blasdg]

People need to start building cannons.
But I agree with you, the design is crap. Turtling like crazy, outboom and spam a million trash units at your opponent. waow...

[helln00]

I mean in age 3 there are a few choices( assuming you go with the +1 shipment politician), the shipment orders are 8 vils + 4 vils& tc wagon + house big button and then go turtle and spam if you want to go full map control crazy chop wood during transition, then go gold and ship the stronghold wagon and shove 2 stronghold in your opponent's face.

[Hawk_Girl]

Inca are just broken. They just boom fast as they are supposed to but also have very easy time defending with buildings if abused. Stronghold still is OP and buys infinite time at the very least.
It's just crap design, turtling potential is too high, houses prob generate too many resources in the long run. Units are meh but doesn't really matter when you outscale the opponent super hard.

anyone showed thats viable?

[deleted_user]

Inca are just broken. They just boom fast as they are supposed to but also have very easy time defending with buildings if abused. Stronghold still is OP and buys infinite time at the very least.
It's just crap design, turtling potential is too high, houses prob generate too many resources in the long run. Units are meh but doesn't really matter when you outscale the opponent super hard.

https://iqtest.com Can you please take this and share the result?

[blasdg]

Garja lost to kynesie and suicided grens into the fortress - so he is a liiiiiiiiittle bit biased right now but he is right in general I think, heavy turtling does not fir the style of AOE3 and is super lame, annoying and boring.

[Riotcoke]

Just make full pikes against any civ without musk, you can't kite them as they have 6.5 speed with a card and they just demolish shit

[kevinitalien]

Inca are just broken. They just boom fast as they are supposed to but also have very easy time defending with buildings if abused. Stronghold still is OP and buys infinite time at the very least.
It's just crap design, turtling potential is too high, houses prob generate too many resources in the long run. Units are meh but doesn't really matter when you outscale the opponent super hard.

anyone showed thats viable?

lukas play well inca

[Garja]

It's not like I suicided them. I had to do that because I knew he was booming on sea and with TCs behind it. I also did some raid around and tried to kept in pinned in the corner. It's just that that amount of map control is enough for Inca to boom. And it would be fine if they also didn't have such easy time abusing the defensive stuff.
Also to everyone who says make cannons. Cannons don't solve shit. They kill buildings slower than grens so Inca has even more time to boom. If you start slow sieging with cannons he can send units to raid your eco and eventually kill cannons suiciding stuff at them, especially if he catches you off guard while you're defending vs raids.
I kinda ignored Inca till now but ye once you get to play someone like Kynesie which abuses them to the full extent it's clear there is a design problem. I mean I'm playing a kinda of OP civ myself and Inca just beats them even with terrible start so go figure out.


@deleted_user5
You are literally a moron. Just shut up.

lukas play well inca

lukas doens't turtle with Inca, so it's a complete different story.

[blasdg]

TBH kynesie abuses ports and Japan to the fullest as well, its just that Inca take it to another level with the scaling fortress.

[Hawk_Girl]

It's not like I suicided them. I had to do that because I knew he was booming on sea and with TCs behind it. I also did some raid around and tried to kept in pinned in the corner. It's just that that amount of map control is enough for Inca to boom. And it would be fine if they also didn't have such easy time abusing the defensive stuff.
Also to everyone who says make cannons. Cannons don't solve shit. They kill buildings slower than grens so Inca has even more time to boom. If you start slow sieging with cannons he can send units to raid your eco and eventually kill cannons suiciding stuff at them, especially if he catches you off guard while you're defending vs raids.
I kinda ignored Inca till now but ye once you get to play someone like Kynesie which abuses them to the full extent it's clear there is a design problem. I mean I'm playing a kinda of OP civ myself and Inca just beats them even with terrible start so go figure out.


@deleted_user5
You are literally a moron. Just shut up.

lukas play well inca

lukas doens't turtle with Inca, so it's a complete different story.

was it streamed or smth?

[blasdg]

I didnt see what you did vs kynesie but I saw games on his stream where he lost kinda hard to early falc push, even with the 4 Field Guns being called.

I mean all Incas stuff is so slow, you need multiple cards, invest millions into the boom and unlike ports, who can just counter with culv/goon, Inca have no units to fight falc/musk.