Inca build orders

[Garja]

Ye there could be a chance there are small windows where you might lose the game becuase you didn't scout or something. But that's probably just a matter of optimization. Also if it gets to the stronghold point there is a design problem anyway as the thing is broken af.
In my game I could perhaps just stay age2 and do mass caroleans and roll over him but I'm not sure. The thing is he failed the rush and I got like 5 houses of him rather quickly. It should have snowballed easily from there but somehow he was able to outscale while aging up. Score went from like +70 in my favor to +70 in his favor while I was harassing his base. They jut have too much turtling capability.

[klonko]

Garja lost to kynesie and suicided grens into the fortress - so he is a liiiiiiiiittle bit biased right now but he is right in general I think, heavy turtling does not fir the style of AOE3 and is super lame, annoying and boring.

Turtling never been a thing in aoe3 because of it's just never been viable. I think it should still be a viable strat just like boom and rush. Sure its annoying and boring for someone that doesnt know how to play against it or doesn't know how to play it but its far from being lame. I'm all for that breath of fresh air and we will see if it is OP when novelty settle down.

Anyway, at least nobody faced the incas as turtle god vs lakota. I could see it being a problem for the lakota player haha.

[Riotcoke]

Garja lost to kynesie and suicided grens into the fortress - so he is a liiiiiiiiittle bit biased right now but he is right in general I think, heavy turtling does not fir the style of AOE3 and is super lame, annoying and boring.

Turtling never been a thing in aoe3 because of it's just never been viable. I think it should still be a viable strat just like boom and rush. Sure its annoying and boring for someone that doesnt know how to play against it or doesn't know how to play it but its far from being lame. I'm all for that breath of fresh air and we will see if it is OP when novelty settle down.

Anyway, at least nobody faced the incas as turtle god vs lakota. I could see it being a problem for the lakota player haha.

It's just boring to play vs it.

[sebnan12]

I wonder whose iq is higher?

[Garja]

Garja lost to kynesie and suicided grens into the fortress - so he is a liiiiiiiiittle bit biased right now but he is right in general I think, heavy turtling does not fir the style of AOE3 and is super lame, annoying and boring.

Turtling never been a thing in aoe3 because of it's just never been viable. I think it should still be a viable strat just like boom and rush. Sure its annoying and boring for someone that doesnt know how to play against it or doesn't know how to play it but its far from being lame. I'm all for that breath of fresh air and we will see if it is OP when novelty settle down.

Anyway, at least nobody faced the incas as turtle god vs lakota. I could see it being a problem for the lakota player haha.

It should be viable but not OP.

[uberjz]

@Garja How exactly does Inca deal with a Swedish semi-ff? Let's say he masses some Carolean age 2, then ages, ships 1kw first card, trains 5 falcs, and attacks with 50 Carolean and 5 falc at 12:30 ish.

This is a genuine question, I'm really struggling in Inca vs. Swedes right now.

[Garja]

Inca can probably do prolonged age1 with TPs, houses and firepit while sending the cards for improved buildings (hp, town dance, improved TPs, etc.). Basically play full defense mode and bait the opponent into attacking while you boom as hard as you can.

[deleted_user]

Sounds like Brit tower FI

[Inst]

Garja lost to kynesie and suicided grens into the fortress - so he is a liiiiiiiiittle bit biased right now but he is right in general I think, heavy turtling does not fir the style of AOE3 and is super lame, annoying and boring.

Turtling never been a thing in aoe3 because of it's just never been viable. I think it should still be a viable strat just like boom and rush. Sure its annoying and boring for someone that doesnt know how to play against it or doesn't know how to play it but its far from being lame. I'm all for that breath of fresh air and we will see if it is OP when novelty settle down.

Anyway, at least nobody faced the incas as turtle god vs lakota. I could see it being a problem for the lakota player haha.

Turtling is generally considered a noob strat, but there's two "pro" turtles seen in RTS.

#1: Fast tech. Techers often put up towers or other defenses to stop a rush while they tech up.

#2: "Protocol", from Warcraft 3. That's a strategy where you turtle up, but then send massive or highly skilled raiders out to disrupt an enemy's boom or economy. It's usually seen more in team games where players on turtle / turtle expand in order to feed allies with resources.

In an AOE3 scenario, think of it as if someone had tons of turrets and culverins and you couldn't get into their base, but they keep on sending Opchikniks out and raid your villies / base to death.

[Garja]

It's not about the strat itself, is how good the defensive capabilities of the civ are.

[helln00]

slightly related to this, have people figure out the optimal way to use the incan explorer for early treasures? I have been mostly agroing them into melee and then using the aoe skill to maximise damage but I'm not sure this is optimal

[forgrin]

slightly related to this, have people figure out the optimal way to use the incan explorer for early treasures? I have been mostly agroing them into melee and then using the aoe skill to maximise damage but I'm not sure this is optimal

That's pretty much it. I have gotten some lucky hits by kiting away and pulling together lots of smaller guardians with small collision radius, but nothing much better than just doing it as you described and it seems extremely timing specific and/or RNG. Result is basically killing 4 monkeys at once instead of 3, not a huge difference.

Edit: another trick is if you catch your opponent fighting an outlaw rifleman/blowgunner etc you can use your ability aoe on the guardian and it hits their explorer too, making picking up their explorer after much easier.

[blackwidow]

inca boom doesnt seem viable because the units are underwhelming late fortress imo, just send 1 priestess age1 and convert vils, thats how to have fun with incas

[klonko]

Garja lost to kynesie and suicided grens into the fortress - so he is a liiiiiiiiittle bit biased right now but he is right in general I think, heavy turtling does not fir the style of AOE3 and is super lame, annoying and boring.

Turtling never been a thing in aoe3 because of it's just never been viable. I think it should still be a viable strat just like boom and rush. Sure its annoying and boring for someone that doesnt know how to play against it or doesn't know how to play it but its far from being lame. I'm all for that breath of fresh air and we will see if it is OP when novelty settle down.

Anyway, at least nobody faced the incas as turtle god vs lakota. I could see it being a problem for the lakota player haha.

Turtling is generally considered a noob strat, but there's two "pro" turtles seen in RTS.

#1: Fast tech. Techers often put up towers or other defenses to stop a rush while they tech up.

#2: "Protocol", from Warcraft 3. That's a strategy where you turtle up, but then send massive or highly skilled raiders out to disrupt an enemy's boom or economy. It's usually seen more in team games where players on turtle / turtle expand in order to feed allies with resources.

In an AOE3 scenario, think of it as if someone had tons of turrets and culverins and you couldn't get into their base, but they keep on sending Opchikniks out and raid your villies / base to death.

Yeah, I know that. I was mentionning that it was really suboptimal in AOE3 because of how important the hunts are for production and how costly the switch to mills/farm/paddies is. Also the tower in AOE3 are far from being OP and are limited in number which really destroy the purpose of turtle unless you send card for them. In that case you hurt your eco and your military and it just don't pay off...

And then there is the cannon argument, incas cannot really defend vs 5+ cannons with musk which is kind of easy to pull off for most civ.

[Garja]

I don't get this inca cannot defend vs cannons thing. I used to defend vs cannons with Aztecs colonial. Inca even has stealth chasqui, better mass and faster/more micrable units. In age3 you have basically abus guns with setup animation (surprised none noticed that it's the exact same unit) so those things kinda counter artillery.

Anyway I've been testing a bit of Inca. They seem very strong. You can full house boom very easily and then just spam tons of actually decent units. Also because Inca eco is actually good and they spare the fast age up for the 3rd age you can easily semi FF. I mean they're essentially a slightly better version of Aztecs, except for the firepit mechanics which is slightly inferior.

The civ has atleast 4 viable playstyles:
- colonial play with full house boom and just spam units
- FF/semi FF play with moderate house boom and sending/making units in the 3rd age
- FF play into TC+ forts boom
- full turtle prolonged age1 boom with house boom+ TPs and building improvement cards

I think any style can work depending on the MU. Colonial and semi FF styles are rather intuitive. Turtle strats are more for those who like to play the walling styles with CM, etc.

[blasdg]

Abus Guns shoot instantly while Huaraca have the most awful animation known to mankind. Also their range is just shitty vs cannons, I saw it multiple times on kynesie stream, dont know why you want to argue against it?!

The full house boom with 600w in age 2 is surely decent but your units are not good even when spammed. But I agree you can have a quite nice timing at min 8-9.

The 1st age boom is the thing I dont quite get. What card do you want to play, advanced buildings? Advanced tambo? You can have a lot of food but I guess you still lose to units in your base, not the "Ima try to destroy your tc" but more the "halo I am 1 stereltt an gong to iddle u 4 eva" type of player.

[spanky4ever]

@Aizamk seem to be winning with them. The word on the town, is that they are NOT OP.
For best build order, I would suggest watching his stream though - but I doubt that he play BOB

[howlingwolfpaw]

adding this here too, its far from perfect but I think could be perfected by rush pros.


So I spent some time playing around with Inca to try to under stand this unique civ, is it poorly designed? or just meant to be played differently....

I tried some cards to see what kind of stats I could get in a OP mode and found that no one I have seen has been using chasqui's properly, they are secretly OP and here is why.

In age 2 can get chasqui stats to: (9 unit max, but more are available each age)
180hp, 21 attack, 20 siege, .20 RR armor, 10.13 speed.... while cloaked! for 40 wood and 40 coin.
Compare that to a chimu runner...
140 hp 21 attack, 9 siege, .10 armor, 7.47 speed for 65 food and 35 wood.

raid with chasqui in stealth all over the map. They do as much attack as chimu, OP fast, and are tankier. With the stealth you can get in perfect position nearly instantly and run away like lightening guerilla style.


This build starts out needing very little food, really only to make vils before switching to natives or other units.

With a few cards can get some pretty startling stats in age 2. here is my order though an expert could refine this.

1st card: Advanced Tombos. use start 300 wood to first build a house, then once u send this card build a TP. All vills are on food, you should be able to age up with 12 vils. this card also gives 1 more chasqui.
I used the 2 vil and llamas card to chop for a house and plaza in transition so I could put them on that. maybe better options.
then start mining 500 gold.
2nd card either quipu kamayuks (adds LOS and 2 full speed units) if you do not have the coin, or ayamra support if you do. (adds 15 attack and stealth)
3rd card team inca bridges 5% speed boost plus 1 more chasqui
4th card road building 15% speed.

wait on the increased house for food until you have enough to really make it worth it.

another card to consider getting would be:
american allies, (allows a few native warriors) to ship a embassy to train chasqui runners out of (or you will need to use town center or native post and then build an embassy)
or the villager HP and armor card if you are also facing a raiding player. Sending either of these as a 2nd card could help if one gets in a vulnerable situation while waiting for chaquis to get going.

Use your advantage of your heros 20% HP buff to native units and train some from the native allies card or get them from the map. The blow gunners are a short range tankier version of the poison archer and the zapotecs are tankier versions of spearmen. Even more so with an explorer So they seem like are not being used effectively

I also think the age up that allows you to send shipments could be used effectively by using the cloak to place that shipment in sneaky ways inside ones base right on top of a mine and then decloak all the units. You could time it with the 4 cannon, and spearment big buttons and a unit shipment and place that and 10 chasqui anywhere in someones base without them realizing how it happened.


Even if one does not want to go an aggressive chasqui rush these cards can make for a powerful raiding force mid game when you are locked in your base as I see so much these guys can really take the focus away and cause a headache chasing after 10 speed units in cloak. Also, this could be the way they counter cannons.
Germany blasdg
Skirmisher
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[blasdg]

Why do you cite me in the end?! Also, didnt I see your post already today?

[Garja]

Abus Guns shoot instantly while Huaraca have the most awful animation known to mankind. Also their range is just shitty vs cannons, I saw it multiple times on kynesie stream, dont know why you want to argue against it?!

The full house boom with 600w in age 2 is surely decent but your units are not good even when spammed. But I agree you can have a quite nice timing at min 8-9.

The 1st age boom is the thing I dont quite get. What card do you want to play, advanced buildings? Advanced tambo? You can have a lot of food but I guess you still lose to units in your base, not the "Ima try to destroy your tc" but more the "halo I am 1 stereltt an gong to iddle u 4 eva" type of player.

They have worse animation that's true but still 19 range and more speed than abus with the Inca card. Also 3 ROF (abus now have 3.5) and 30% rr (abus have 20%).

As for the cannon thing I'm not talking about huaraca range. I'm just sayin the whole Inca lose to cannons is bs. Maybe cause I'm used to kill cannons with Aztecs which have even less ways to deal with them in colo, but frankly when a civ has more units and probably more eco some cannons shouldn't be a problem. When the opponent start having many cannons and many units to protect them, Inca will also have many huaracas and other things going for them, like stronghold with garrisoned units or just mobile army to outplay slow marching army.

Colonial units are definetely interesting, in particular they're all fast.
The pikes can have almost the speed of rods while also having high siege and high hand attack (and better damage vs cav).
Bowmen can have more than 5 speed and they shoot instantly. They're in between yumi and xbows. They do have ups.
The runners are simply super fast and have high damage. They're pretty much like coyote runners just a bit more fragile but with more dps.

And of course there is the firepit which can be dropped at the key moment to boost all units.

As for timings and builds in general I've found myself not even using the unit cards. Having 2 WHs from the age up and good eco from houses it just seems better to send 600w multiple times, the house up and then just unit upgrades or eco ups (like medicine is quite good eventually). The speed card is the first non eco card I usually send when doing colonial stuff. I'm still to understand how good is the bowman venom card but I guess it's decent ?!.

First age build I didn't try yet, I must admit. I imagine I'd send either ATP or 2 lamas first, depending what's more efficient to keep the vill production going: using one card or moving some vills to food.
Also have to decide when it's optimal to build TPs instead of houses. Then I'd add the firepit and start dancing for priests, which btw also help defending.
Once figured out the most efficient booming order I'd just send stuff ot improve buildings in order to survive. That way I'm covered both vs booming strats (Inca can boom harder I think) and also strong pushes. I don't know which is better first, town dance or building HP. Anyway there are several buildings ups in the first age and with TPs, firepit and xp from houses you should be able to send them.

[howlingwolfpaw]

Why do you cite me in the end?! Also, didnt I see your post already today?

sorry I just did a quick copy didnt realize u were in there.

[howlingwolfpaw]

Another interesting card for inca is the fur trade they get in age 1 is an INFINITE card.... so you can do this many times.... with their ability to get food quickly and relatively little amount of coin needed this can be a huge tactic people are missing. Get your age up, and upgrades from food, or if you have surplus food send it, and then only gather more food until you run low again.... for TR this could really have some incredible boom strats with not needing to mine any coin hardly

[dansil92]

So rumour has it that the incan anti-arty unit is classed as both infantry AND artillery- meaning that yabusame, arrow knights, but especially light cannon (6x unless theres a hidden penalty) counter them very hard at range. I believe flamethrowers would also have a stacked up multi but I've not yet confirmed

[howlingwolfpaw]

yeah they are kind of like a longer range weaker abus. (21 in imperial) not really sure if they are that good or not as I have not used a substantial about in battle, but likely better than bolas.

[fei123456]

So rumour has it that the incan anti-arty unit is classed as both infantry AND artillery- meaning that yabusame, arrow knights, but especially light cannon (6x unless theres a hidden penalty) counter them very hard at range. I believe flamethrowers would also have a stacked up multi but I've not yet confirmed

But you can hardly recognize them from a huge mass of shit