Inca build order

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Inca build order

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Re: Inca build order

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Re: Inca build order

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i liked it when you asked the easy UI why he wasn't resigning
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Re: Inca build order

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Re: Inca build order

Post by Imperial Noob »

1) what to do if the rush gets repulsed?
2) why don't Inca build a market?
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Re: Inca build order

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Post by Lukas_L99 »

Imperial Noob wrote:1) what to do if the rush gets repulsed?
2) why don't Inca build a market?
1) you can build 2 wh if you expect that
2) you can add it with 600w and max houses instead of unit shipments, Incas are very flexible I'd say

Also it would have maybe been better to not use sheep to speed up the age time, since you don't have them on every map.
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Re: Inca build order

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Post by Garja »

It's good build tho I think 2 lamas is still superior if you keep chopping wood with vills after the BB?! I remember testing that and age up time is the same without having to eat any additional herdable except the starting lama.

The fact that you can do stuff with units before 7 minutes is strategically important and something I was kinda ignoring when testing all builds. I was basically ignoring unit shipments but in the end you don't have much better stuff to send. Without market and with vill BB already researched 700g is not useful. Without a 2nd rax 4 fattened lama or 600w also doesn't find use. I guess 600w or even 3 TP card can be sent second if no need to have units that early.

Anyway, 4 house into vill BB is still viable and about as efficient. The fact you get houses gradually and that you don't have to move vills around makes it very close. I think it comes down to which treasures you find first, if gold go for vill BB, if wood/food go for houses.
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Re: Inca build order

Post by vividlyplain »

@[Armag] diarouga why is this superior to (a) an age 1 tp + 2 kanchas with 2 llamas shipped first or (b) 4 kanchas age 1 with 2 llamas first?

couldn't getting the BB in transition be viable?
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Re: Inca build order

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

Imperial Noob wrote:1) what to do if the rush gets repulsed?
2) why don't Inca build a market?
1) Just like Aztecs, you try to rebuild an army but let's be honest, if your rush gets crushed and your opponents reaches age 3 you're dead. If he's age 2 however, you have a decent economy, and decent units so you can fight in age 2.
2) Because kanchas are simply superior. One kancha with the age 2 upgrade is better than market and hunting dog in early game.
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Re: Inca build order

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

Lukas_L99 wrote:
Imperial Noob wrote:1) what to do if the rush gets repulsed?
2) why don't Inca build a market?
1) you can build 2 wh if you expect that
2) you can add it with 600w and max houses instead of unit shipments, Incas are very flexible I'd say

Also it would have maybe been better to not use sheep to speed up the age time, since you don't have them on every map.
2) Ye, probably add it when you have 15v on food.

Shouldn't have used the sheep you're right. It's "only" +5 seconds though, that matters in a competitive game but the build order is about the same.
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Re: Inca build order

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

Garja wrote:It's good build tho I think 2 lamas is still superior if you keep chopping wood with vills after the BB?! I remember testing that and age up time is the same without having to eat any additional herdable except the starting lama.

The fact that you can do stuff with units before 7 minutes is strategically important and something I was kinda ignoring when testing all builds. I was basically ignoring unit shipments but in the end you don't have much better stuff to send. Without market and with vill BB already researched 700g is not useful. Without a 2nd rax 4 fattened lama or 600w also doesn't find use. I guess 600w or even 3 TP card can be sent second if no need to have units that early.

Anyway, 4 house into vill BB is still viable and about as efficient. The fact you get houses gradually and that you don't have to move vills around makes it very close. I think it comes down to which treasures you find first, if gold go for vill BB, if wood/food go for houses.
How are the 2 lamas superior ? It speeds up your age up by like 10 sec max, and 300w > 2 lamas regarding VS.
I agree with you that your economy is too weak to send crates, you won't spam from 2 wh anyway. It seems better to go TP+wh and send unit shipments.
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Re: Inca build order

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

vividlyplain wrote:@[Armag] diarouga why is this superior to (a) an age 1 tp + 2 kanchas with 2 llamas shipped first or (b) 4 kanchas age 1 with 2 llamas first?

couldn't getting the BB in transition be viable?
I'll try to compare what's comparable so we'll do my build vs 4 kanchas (because TP gives other advantages) :

Both builds click up at around 3 minutes.

The 4 kanchas build has :
12 villagers and 4 kanchas

My build has :
16 villagers, 1 kancha and 300w

Basically, I have 4 extra villagers and you have 1 extra kancha, easy choice tbh.

You can get the BB in transition sure, but I'll get 4 kanchas in transition, so in the end we'll have the same villager count but you'll have less kanchas.
I'd recommand you try the 4 kanchas build against the computer and tell us how many kanchas you have when you reach the 2nd age, I'm quite sure you'll have less.
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Re: Inca build order

Post by Garja »

[Armag] diarouga wrote: How are the 2 lamas superior ? It speeds up your age up by like 10 sec max, and 300w > 2 lamas regarding VS.
I agree with you that your economy is too weak to send crates, you won't spam from 2 wh anyway. It seems better to go TP+wh and send unit shipments.
Because you are building houses while waiting for the card and that generates food, adding VS, plus your vills don't have to hunt so less idle vill, altho I guess you have one animal dead already so it's not a huge difference. Just as reference 300w is a bit less than 500 VS, 2 lamas is about 400 VS.
You can use the WHs if you just keep house booming till 2nd card arrives and then spam from 2 raxes. But you get units out later, which is not risky but it's more passive and that seems to be strategically relevant as Inca units don't seem strong enough to play a full colo boom game. Aside from the bowmen. Bowman with poison card does like +6 damage to other RI, + 10 damage to HI and +2 damage vs cav. Can kinda emulate yumi+wall.
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Re: Inca build order

Post by lemmings121 »

[Armag] diarouga wrote:
Nice build thanks for sharing.

But you do it in the dream scenario, with gold treasure to help start, sheep to age, etc. I just tried the exact same build without treasures and no sheep in the map (worse case ocf, most of the time you will get at least something in the start), and had to age with 17vills. I guess it needs to be tested to find out if the build is viable in less the ideal spawns
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Re: Inca build order

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

Garja wrote:
[Armag] diarouga wrote: How are the 2 lamas superior ? It speeds up your age up by like 10 sec max, and 300w > 2 lamas regarding VS.
I agree with you that your economy is too weak to send crates, you won't spam from 2 wh anyway. It seems better to go TP+wh and send unit shipments.
Because you are building houses while waiting for the card and that generates food, adding VS, plus your vills don't have to hunt so less idle vill, altho I guess you have one animal dead already so it's not a huge difference. Just as reference 300w is a bit less than 500 VS, 2 lamas is about 400 VS.
You can use the WHs if you just keep house booming till 2nd card arrives and then spam from 2 raxes. But you get units out later, which is not risky but it's more passive and that seems to be strategically relevant as Inca units don't seem strong enough to play a full colo boom game. Aside from the bowmen. Bowman with poison card does like +6 damage to other RI, + 10 damage to HI and +2 damage vs cav. Can kinda emulate yumi+wall.
Tbf, if you think the 4 kancha build is superior, send me a rec where you get more eco and a better timing with your build.
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Re: Inca build order

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[Armag] diarouga wrote:
vividlyplain wrote:@[Armag] diarouga why is this superior to (a) an age 1 tp + 2 kanchas with 2 llamas shipped first or (b) 4 kanchas age 1 with 2 llamas first?

couldn't getting the BB in transition be viable?
I'll try to compare what's comparable so we'll do my build vs 4 kanchas (because TP gives other advantages) :

Both builds click up at around 3 minutes.

The 4 kanchas build has :
12 villagers and 4 kanchas

My build has :
16 villagers, 1 kancha and 300w

Basically, I have 4 extra villagers and you have 1 extra kancha, easy choice tbh.

You can get the BB in transition sure, but I'll get 4 kanchas in transition, so in the end we'll have the same villager count but you'll have less kanchas.
thanks... just noticed that kanchas are 135 wood now too... nerfed since last i tested

seems like i'm idled with your build without livestock tho
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Re: Inca build order

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

lemmings121 wrote:
[Armag] diarouga wrote:
Nice build thanks for sharing.

But you do it in the dream scenario, with gold treasure to help start, sheep to age, etc. I just tried the exact same build without treasures and no sheep in the map (worse case ocf, most of the time you will get at least something in the start), and had to age with 17vills. I guess it needs to be tested to find out if the build is viable in less the ideal spawns
Ye, that's the awkward part. You need the coin treasure for this build.
If you don't have a coin treasure, I guess you can still go for the 4 vills, then chop for a 2nd kancha and send the 2 lamas but that's obviously worse because 300w > 1 kancha.
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Re: Inca build order

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

vividlyplain wrote:
[Armag] diarouga wrote:
vividlyplain wrote:@[Armag] diarouga why is this superior to (a) an age 1 tp + 2 kanchas with 2 llamas shipped first or (b) 4 kanchas age 1 with 2 llamas first?

couldn't getting the BB in transition be viable?
I'll try to compare what's comparable so we'll do my build vs 4 kanchas (because TP gives other advantages) :

Both builds click up at around 3 minutes.

The 4 kanchas build has :
12 villagers and 4 kanchas

My build has :
16 villagers, 1 kancha and 300w

Basically, I have 4 extra villagers and you have 1 extra kancha, easy choice tbh.

You can get the BB in transition sure, but I'll get 4 kanchas in transition, so in the end we'll have the same villager count but you'll have less kanchas.
thanks... just noticed that kanchas are 135 wood now too... nerfed since last i tested
What was their cost before ? I only started playing Inca this patch.
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Re: Inca build order

Post by vividlyplain »

[Armag] diarouga wrote:
vividlyplain wrote:
Show hidden quotes
thanks... just noticed that kanchas are 135 wood now too... nerfed since last i tested
What was their cost before ? I only started playing Inca this patch.
I saw on a beta stream they were 110w iirc
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Re: Inca build order

Post by Garja »

[Armag] diarouga wrote: Tbf, if you think the 4 kancha build is superior, send me a rec where you get more eco and a better timing with your build.
I don't think it is superior, it's close tho. I also tried getting 4v asap after the change as it makes sense. But depending on which treasures you get at the start one or the other might be more efficient.
Anyway just tested koncha card 600w 600w with 2 raxes. You get the first 10 bowmen out at 6.40 and then pretty much 10-10-10 batches from there with perfect macro while also full house booming and adding the market. With poison card right after that it does seem a valid strategy at least in some MUs. Also can just send 700g and age up.
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Re: Inca build order

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[Armag] diarouga wrote:
Imperial Noob wrote: kanchas are simply superior. One kancha with the age 2 upgrade is better than market and hunting dog in early game.
The maths on that doesn't add up. Hunting dogs with 10 vills on food provides more additional food income than 1 upgraded kancha. The additional benefits of having s market for flexibility when facing a rush or doing a FF or Semi FF is important too.

Edit - my bad - it's at 12 villagers that hunting dogs produces more additional food than the upgraded Kancha. However hunting dogs applies as soon as you choose to send it in age 1, whereas the kancha upgrade doesn't appear until age 2.
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Re: Inca build order

Post by Garja »

nah HD on 10v is just 1v. 1 upgraded kancha > 1v
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Re: Inca build order

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lemmings121 wrote:
[Armag] diarouga wrote:
Nice build thanks for sharing.

But you do it in the dream scenario, with gold treasure to help start, sheep to age, etc. I just tried the exact same build without treasures and no sheep in the map (worse case ocf, most of the time you will get at least something in the start), and had to age with 17vills. I guess it needs to be tested to find out if the build is viable in less the ideal spawns
for good winrate with this strat it also helps to be playing vs bot
edit: watching the video, yea, this doesnt look like something you can do in all games, seems very niche and you'd usually be very slow
oranges.
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Re: Inca build order

Post by Garja »

With 300w you can't, with 2 lamas you can do it pretty much everygame.
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Re: Inca build order

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

I guess you can do 4v/2 kanchas with 2 lamas.

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