How to beat the Netherland with France

User avatar
Korea South ssaa22
Musketeer
Posts: 96
Joined: Nov 9, 2020
ESO: Civalian

How to beat the Netherland with France

Post by ssaa22 »

Hi there

I tried to break down the bank with a variety of batches, but I failed.
But it's even more stupid to go to age3 without attacking the bank.
How can I beat the Netherlands?
The text may be awkward using a translator, But I hope we can talk a lot about good things. GG
User avatar
Singapore Thrar
Retired Contributor
Posts: 286
Joined: Sep 22, 2017
ESO: Thrar

Re: How to beat the Netherland with France

Post by Thrar »

Conventional wisdom is to go age 3 and push with 2 falcs early, before their banks can pay off. I'd probably go semi-FF with 5 hussars in age 2 to idle them and maybe get a vil or two. Card order 4 vils -> 700c -> 700w.
Make skirms, some goons if he has a stable, ship 2 falcs first card in age 3, push their houses and production buildings and don't let them get hunts outside their base.
No Flag deleted_user
Ninja
Posts: 14364
Joined: Mar 26, 2015

Re: How to beat the Netherland with France

Post by deleted_user »

few ways I guess

1) all in rush w/an all in rush civ (like aztec -- beware CM)

2) age 2 pressure with eco behind for a big age 2 timing while he's aging (like brit) usually staying age 2 to seal the deal

3) fast ff w/siege and forward shipment point (like spain, otto, china, haud)

4) age 2 timing + eco macro game (like france, port -- musk/huss + 8 bow shipment w/stagecoach behind and age after doing damage)

5) germany (germany)

6) out eco (like japan, or vc, 2 docks, livestock pen build on florida, or naked stagecoach)

7) FI (like china, japan, or spain)
User avatar
China fei123456
Jaeger
Posts: 3283
Joined: Apr 23, 2015
ESO: fei123456
Location: Alderaan

Re: How to beat the Netherland with France

Post by fei123456 »

1. Age 2 hussar+pike. Go hussar first.
2. Aggressive FF/SFF. Send 2 cannons first, and spam skirm from 2 rax. You can even try to put 2 rax in front.

You don't really need to stop his bank boom. Dutch don't have cannons, so an aggressive FF pressure works.
Netherlands Veni_Vidi_Vici_W
Lancer
Posts: 632
Joined: Feb 12, 2015
ESO: ramex19

Re: How to beat the Netherland with France

  • Quote

Post by Veni_Vidi_Vici_W »

One does not simply beat the Netherlands
Age Of Empires 3 Videos - GamePlay, Commentary & Tutorials: http://www.youtube.com/venividiviciw
Age Of Empires 3 Live Stream - http://www.twitch.tv/venividivici_w
Germany rnmrtzk
Musketeer
Posts: 92
Joined: Sep 30, 2019
ESO: rnmrtzk

Re: How to beat the Netherland with France

Post by rnmrtzk »

At my lvl semi ff and then skirm + cuir + 2 falcs works quite well. With the cuirs you can ironically scare the ruyters away like spain is doing with the pikes
look wrote:I Opened the TAD today
it looks like i was in paradise
User avatar
India _DB_
Howdah
Posts: 1787
Joined: May 20, 2015

Re: How to beat the Netherland with France

  • Quote

Post by _DB_ »

Veni_Vidi_Vici_W wrote:One does not simply beat the Netherlands
Wow you are back!!
Doing what you like is Freedom...
Liking what you do is Happiness...
User avatar
Netherlands Mr_Bramboy
Retired Contributor
Donator 01
Posts: 8219
Joined: Feb 26, 2015
ESO: [VOC] Bram
Location: Amsterdam

Re: How to beat the Netherland with France

  • Quote

Post by Mr_Bramboy »

With France, you should go for a stagecoach semi-ff if possible. Start 700w and stable, beware of enemy pikes shipped or trained (scout!) and control the trade line. Falcs and cuirs are your best friend, but beware not to push with only one of those two as the ruyters are liable to trade cost-effectively without additional French support.
User avatar
Brazil Luciofrancosi
Skirmisher
Posts: 183
Joined: Oct 6, 2017
ESO: luciofrancosi
Location: UK

Re: How to beat the Netherland with France

Post by Luciofrancosi »

It depends on what skill level you are and what playstyle works best for you!!
I am currently around 1250 elo(1st lieutenant on TAD) and what is working really well for me is a musk huss timing aimed to attack them right as they hit fortress followed by an age up!! The aim of it is to do as much damage as possible and trade your units for their fortress shipments while you age behind that and get access to stronger units yourself!!
I usually go for 700w 4cdb 700g, get 2 batches of huss first to raid a bit but try and keep them alive and then 3 or 4 batches of musks!! U can send 8bow for a stronger timing or you can attack with these units and send 600c to age up!!
This was so far what worked the best for me, getting tps and stagecoach used to work really well for me back on TAD but for some reason on DE it doesnt seem to do really well!!
Probably cuz of the extra bank they get and that they can just go industrial and get a lot of stuff like the musks from the church and heavy canons!!
"Supreme excellence consists of breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting"

Sun Tzu - The art of war
France Kaiserklein
Pro Player
Posts: 10278
Joined: Jun 6, 2015
Location: Paris
GameRanger ID: 5529322

Re: How to beat the Netherland with France

  • Quote

Post by Kaiserklein »

Age 12/10 or 13 if you can and pressure with a forward stable. You can just go 4 cdbs / 700w and add a barracks (very important in case he goes 8 pikes) and TPs with the wood, or open 700w if you think you'll be able to get a decent batch of cav out. Add some bows if they open rax, as bow / huss is what you want. Add 5 pikes and/or musks if they open stable. Can go 600w at some point. Get stagecoach sooner or later depending on how greedy they are, if it's not a stagecoach map just mass more or age earlier. Hit some sort of timing with infantry + cav, do some damage, and then age with 700g (or 600g if you used 700g for the timing).
You usually want to end up in fortress with a forward double rax no matter what, and just open with mass skirms + enough goons. Send falcs only once you have enough units to cover them, usually 3rd card or so. Later on you add cuir.

It's pretty hard to answer more accurately than that, because it really depends so much on your opening, on the map, and on what you scout. I personally don't have a plan at minute 0 in this specific MU, there really are a lot of ways to play this match up as France.
I guess you can check this game, it's the most recent casted game I've played in MU. It shows one way to play it aggressively, you can find more videos featuring this classic MU though.
Image
Image
Image
LoOk_tOm wrote:I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..
User avatar
China fei123456
Jaeger
Posts: 3283
Joined: Apr 23, 2015
ESO: fei123456
Location: Alderaan

Re: How to beat the Netherland with France

Post by fei123456 »

Kaiserklein wrote:Age 12/10 or 13 if you can
Well, what's the French start meta in DE now? TP start 14p, market start 13p, TP start 12p (no house), TP start 13p (idle for a while)?
France Kaiserklein
Pro Player
Posts: 10278
Joined: Jun 6, 2015
Location: Paris
GameRanger ID: 5529322

Re: How to beat the Netherland with France

  • Quote

Post by Kaiserklein »

12/10 whenever you find like 70+ food treasure, which is almost every game on shitty DE maps which have a billion broken treasures. If you don't, try to get a wood treasure so you don't chop the whole 100w for a house, you'll probably be able to go 13. If you don't, you can go TP + market with 50+ gold in treasures. You should at least get one of these (usually multiple) basically every game as France.

Most people still go for the 14 age up with TP but soon they'll realize it's just worse.
Image
Image
Image
LoOk_tOm wrote:I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..
User avatar
Italy Garja
Retired Contributor
Donator 02
Posts: 9729
Joined: Feb 11, 2015
ESO: Garja

Re: How to beat the Netherland with France

Post by Garja »

Ye it's insane French can TP + 13v every single game without even any idle time.
Image Image Image
User avatar
Latvia harcha
Gendarme
Posts: 5136
Joined: Jul 2, 2015
ESO: hatamoto_samurai

Re: How to beat the Netherland with France

Post by harcha »

I've been able to get consistent TP & 13v ageups with like 5 seconds or less idle time. I once did a TP & market & 14v with like 5 seconds idle but that was because I totally screwed up my build. But generally France now ages up pretty damn fast and thus Dutch shouldn't have a lot of room to breathe in colonial.
POC wrote:Also I most likely know a whole lot more than you.
POC wrote:Also as an objective third party, and near 100% accuracy of giving correct information, I would say my opinions are more reliable than yours.
User avatar
France flontier
Lancer
Intermediate Division Winner
Posts: 630
Joined: Aug 13, 2015
ESO: Flontier
Clan: PLOP

Re: How to beat the Netherland with France

Post by flontier »

Thats why 3huss meta is strongest than ever
User avatar
Great Britain chris1089
Retired Contributor
Posts: 2651
Joined: Feb 11, 2017
ESO: chris1089

Re: How to beat the Netherland with France

Post by chris1089 »

Garja wrote:Ye it's insane French can TP + 13v every single game without even any idle time.
What's changed? Were we doing something wrong on EP?
User avatar
Italy Garja
Retired Contributor
Donator 02
Posts: 9729
Joined: Feb 11, 2015
ESO: Garja

Re: How to beat the Netherland with France

Post by Garja »

It was already possible on EP actually, but on DE there are even more treasures and they are all fixed (like 30f -> 50f).
Image Image Image
France Kaiserklein
Pro Player
Posts: 10278
Joined: Jun 6, 2015
Location: Paris
GameRanger ID: 5529322

Re: How to beat the Netherland with France

Post by Kaiserklein »

Yeah on DE you always get the best crates, only TP maps, most maps have either food treasures, wood treasures or livestock
Image
Image
Image
LoOk_tOm wrote:I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..
User avatar
Latvia harcha
Gendarme
Posts: 5136
Joined: Jul 2, 2015
ESO: hatamoto_samurai

Re: How to beat the Netherland with France

Post by harcha »

chris1089 wrote:
Garja wrote:Ye it's insane French can TP + 13v every single game without even any idle time.
What's changed? Were we doing something wrong on EP?
The testing of fixed crates on EP was very short lived, that is to say DE came and EP testing stopped.
POC wrote:Also I most likely know a whole lot more than you.
POC wrote:Also as an objective third party, and near 100% accuracy of giving correct information, I would say my opinions are more reliable than yours.
User avatar
France chronique
Advanced Player
Posts: 2060
Joined: Jul 4, 2015
ESO: poissondu44
Location: France

Re: How to beat the Netherland with France

  • Quote

Post by chronique »

Fixed crate is just so cool. Tbh if they remove it, i would stop aoe3 :/
User avatar
China fei123456
Jaeger
Posts: 3283
Joined: Apr 23, 2015
ESO: fei123456
Location: Alderaan

Re: How to beat the Netherland with France

  • Quote

Post by fei123456 »

The only thing I dislike is that DE animals walk away automatically :mad:
User avatar
Brazil Luciofrancosi
Skirmisher
Posts: 183
Joined: Oct 6, 2017
ESO: luciofrancosi
Location: UK

Re: How to beat the Netherland with France

Post by Luciofrancosi »

fei123456 wrote:The only thing I dislike is that DE animals walk away automatically :mad:
100% agree!!
I hated capybaras back on tad and now every single hunt behaves almost the same way!!
Dont wanna even imagine having to deal with them on DE!!
"Supreme excellence consists of breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting"

Sun Tzu - The art of war
User avatar
Brazil macacoalbino
Howdah
Posts: 1305
Joined: Apr 2, 2015
ESO: MacacoAlbino
Clan: 3Huss

Re: How to beat the Netherland with France

Post by macacoalbino »

ssaa22 wrote:Hi there

I tried to break down the bank with a variety of batches, but I failed.
But it's even more stupid to go to age3 without attacking the bank.
How can I beat the Netherlands?
Well first tip is don't try to take down the banks.
Go for houses first and military buildings second if you can. Sieging a bank is time consuming and allows the opponent to be shooting with max TC Fire efficiency.
I'd like to ask what is the build order you are working with currently?
Image

Image
User avatar
Brazil macacoalbino
Howdah
Posts: 1305
Joined: Apr 2, 2015
ESO: MacacoAlbino
Clan: 3Huss

Re: How to beat the Netherland with France

Post by macacoalbino »

Kaiserklein wrote:12/10 whenever you find like 70+ food treasure, which is almost every game on shitty DE maps which have a billion broken treasures. If you don't, try to get a wood treasure so you don't chop the whole 100w for a house, you'll probably be able to go 13. If you don't, you can go TP + market with 50+ gold in treasures. You should at least get one of these (usually multiple) basically every game as France.

Most people still go for the 14 age up with TP but soon they'll realize it's just worse.
Wait, so you're saying that it's possible to age 14 idleless with tp+market with a single 50c treasure? Or do you just eat the idle time and don't care?
Image

Image
France Kaiserklein
Pro Player
Posts: 10278
Joined: Jun 6, 2015
Location: Paris
GameRanger ID: 5529322

Re: How to beat the Netherland with France

  • Quote

Post by Kaiserklein »

macacoalbino wrote:
Kaiserklein wrote:12/10 whenever you find like 70+ food treasure, which is almost every game on shitty DE maps which have a billion broken treasures. If you don't, try to get a wood treasure so you don't chop the whole 100w for a house, you'll probably be able to go 13. If you don't, you can go TP + market with 50+ gold in treasures. You should at least get one of these (usually multiple) basically every game as France.

Most people still go for the 14 age up with TP but soon they'll realize it's just worse.
Wait, so you're saying that it's possible to age 14 idleless with tp+market with a single 50c treasure? Or do you just eat the idle time and don't care?
Yeah that's pretty much what I'm saying, you'll have 700f or so if you only get 50g and no other treasure. That's like 5 secs of idle time, which is worth the free market, you just need tight macro and a decent first xp.
And usually you'll also get some more treasures. Food or wood obviously help, but even more gold helps as you'll just use it to buy wood instead of chopping everything. So let's say you find 80g, you'll have 30g left after HD, so you can just mine 95g (which is faster than chopping 100w) and buy for your house.

And people underestimate the impact of that kind of opening. It means you can e.g chop for only placer mines in transition and then task your cdbs to food and coin, and hit fortress around 7:00 without using 700g (700w instead for infrastructures), which makes for a both greedy and quick FF. Or you can chop extra wood for 2 houses instead of your market, meaning you can open with 2 buildings samwise style, but with 4 cdbs instead of 700w (I've had batches of 10 musks before with that build). Or you can get 5 huss out regardless of the 5 coss idling you, because you banked so much. It's pretty OP anyway.
Image
Image
Image
LoOk_tOm wrote:I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests

Which top 10 players do you wish to see listed?

All-time

Active last two weeks

Active last month

Supremacy

Treaty

Official

ESOC Patch

Treaty Patch

1v1 Elo

2v2 Elo

3v3 Elo

Power Rating

Which streams do you wish to see listed?

Twitch

Age of Empires III

Age of Empires IV