How to fight against Inca?

[randerzbobanderz]

They seem to be a stupidly broken civ. The ability to shove 50 unit inside their forts, then popping them in and out is broken. How should I play against them? I did a age 3 mahout and gurka timing, but they somehow beat my mass in a couple seconds with the fort.

[helln00]

I dont know how well this applies to your situation but I find as china that forward age 2 fight seems to do pretty well, especially if you successfully get map control and just pressure them. Even if you cant starve them due to their houses you can force of them off gold which they need for runners or just siege down their houses

[Miyawaki Sakura]

I don't think India can beat the Incas.
jungle bowman slaughter Sepoy, and Zamburak is captured by the op-runner.
India has no cannons to deal with massive infantry, and elephants and urmi will die without accessing the fast speed of the Inca units.

[helln00]

I dont know, the classic ele sepoy comp seems to be decent against inca atleast on paper, since jungle bowman would basically melt to mahout and sepoys have enough dps to deal with both pike and runners.

Due to their speed though I think you have to fight inca close to their base and have map control to make sure that they cant counter attack. Using siege ele to pressure their houses and their eco on paper is pretty good.

[Thrar]

Clearly you need to delete all your villagers and go full pop mahout:



More seriously though, I think it's important to pressure early enough and keep up the pressure. Inca can boom a lot faster than India if left alone and then it won't matter if you take good trades because they'll outproduce you. Unless you went for a full boom yourself, it's probably too late by the time they have a fort and 50 units to go with it.

[harcha]

Originally:

Patch 3552 (22.10.2020):

Huaraca now:

Grenadier for comparison:

Honestly I think Huaraca is ridiculous...
That attack is stupid high and makes it counter all infantry, considering the range. It's like a super-grenadier, that can single handed kill musk+skirm or musk+artillery compositions. And when mixed in an incan army obviously no cavalry is ever going to reach it, so the low HP ends up not mattering.
At the same time artillery doesn't even do terrible against it. I think it should do more dmg vs artillery (or maybe just higher range) and much less dmg against infantry.

[Aykin Haraka]

fire animation is shit that's why you'll never see someone using huaraca vs pure inf, only siegeing or vs cannons

[kevinitalien]

Originally:

originally.png

Patch 3552 (22.10.2020):

3552.png

Huaraca now:

huaraca.png

Grenadier for comparison:

gren.png

Honestly I think Huaraca is ridiculous...
That attack is stupid high and makes it counter all infantry, considering the range. It's like a super-grenadier, that can single handed kill musk+skirm or musk+artillery compositions. And when mixed in an incan army obviously no cavalry is ever going to reach it, so the low HP ends up not mattering.
At the same time artillery doesn't even do terrible against it. I think it should do more dmg vs artillery (or maybe just higher range) and much less dmg against infantry.

LMAO, the civ is not broken enough apparently, it's not like we could put units in a fort and hit with 40 siege atk units and ofc 30rr so its unkillable for ranged unit, who care about animation with these stats

[helln00]

eh the attack stat is just the same as that of an age 2 abus gun isn't it? without the multi against heavy infantry and an extra +1 range in age 3.

[kevinitalien]

eh the attack stat is just the same as that of an age 2 abus gun isn't it? without the multi against heavy infantry and an extra +1 range in age 3.

yeah but 150 hp ton of siege 24 range siege and good eco for inca, that unit gonna be broken for sure with inca

[helln00]

vet abus still has more HP, atk and upgrade potential though, it also cost wood and coin so the Incan food eco ain't going to be that important. If we want to nerf it just give it the same nerf as abus guns, make ROF 3.5.

I have seen this thing's firing animation, its about as clunky as lbs so its a mostly a stand and fire unit.

[harcha]

fire animation is shit that's why you'll never see someone using huaraca vs pure inf, only siegeing or vs cannons

Animation is shit but it's still insane in all other aspects. It will overperform in actual compositions, not to mention shred any skirm/musk caught in small numbers.

vet abus still has more HP, atk and upgrade potential though, it also cost wood and coin so the Incan food eco ain't going to be that important. If we want to nerf it just give it the same nerf as abus guns, make ROF 3.5.

I have seen this thing's firing animation, its about as clunky as lbs so its a mostly a stand and fire unit.

Do you want inca to have abus equivalent? You think jungles are not ridiculous enough?
I think solution would be to make it more specialized, it has no business being as good as it is for anti-infantry.

[dansil92]

at least they're not tagged as artillery anymore. that was hilarious when light cannons had a bonus vs both their inf tag and their arty tag and did like 6x damage and rifle riders just melted them in 2 hits

[gibson]

Inca is simply not that good IMO. You just have to play slow and clean and not get run around or overcommit too early vs forts and you’re fine.

[helln00]

vet abus still has more HP, atk and upgrade potential though, it also cost wood and coin so the Incan food eco ain't going to be that important. If we want to nerf it just give it the same nerf as abus guns, make ROF 3.5.

I have seen this thing's firing animation, its about as clunky as lbs so its a mostly a stand and fire unit.

Do you want inca to have abus equivalent? You think jungles are not ridiculous enough?
I think solution would be to make it more specialized, it has no business being as good as it is for anti-infantry.

But its not an abus equivalent though, it already does less dmg to heavy infantry and more dmg to artillery compared to abus due to not having a multi against heavy infantry and no negative multi vs artillery. if you want to make it further specialised against the artillery, I think the ROF nerf would do exactly that, since if you are sniping artillery then its usually one shot and ROF doesn't matter but a 3.5 or 4 ROF would reduce their DPS against all other units, combined with their clunky animation as well.

[fei123456]

Inca is a stupid broken civ, but it's not an African style "broken". Every civ age up and gets stronger new units, but Inca does the opposite thing. For nearly every civ you just go age III, train musk+cannon (or dragoon+cannon). Don't play age II, or try melee civ. For India you just spam sepoy+gurkha, and siege with 2 elephant cannons. It's nearly impossible to kill the 2 cannons, and you just win by a boring pushing. Also you'd better put about 10 zamburaks in base, to defend the possible Chimu raiding.

Mahouts are even worse than other cavalry, as they're slow and they don't snare (not sure). Inca just kite with poison archers and they die without doing anything. Jungle archers should be considered as anti-cavalry units, but they don't hold a high quality musk+skirm army.

[Squamiger]

wait mahouts don't snare? so thats why they feel so bad

[gagootz]

Wait they seriously don’t snare? Another reason why Dhaka suffering is sneaky OP

[helln00]

I am pretty sure they snare, we need a spirit of the law for aoe 3 to test this. The whole point of Chimu Runner's gimmick is that they don't snare

[harcha]

They snare but you can't really snare when you are doing too high dmg vs victims. As an example - once you're 2-hitting strelets with naginata, you're practically not snaring anymore.

[helln00]

Oh that problem, time to mix in shit camels then

[harcha]

Oh that problem, time to mix in shit camels then

yeah that does really help snaring, but it's kinda expensive (most probably just make ottoman hussars and ship intervention). it's also not the mahouts doing the high damage, but the trailing sepoy/gurkha mass that kills any snared unit leaving remaining units at full speed

[helln00]

also correct me if I am wrong but most of the time the indian player should have map control with an agra fort, so ideally the opponent should have less room to maneuver and even if the indian army has less effective snaring, they should be cornering their opponent so they have to engage anyway

[harcha]

yes, such positioning would be the goal for indian player with the typical mahout + infantry composition

[Lukas_L99]

India-Inca is a good MU for India btw