China super greed market FF

[helln00]

So after experimenting with the market start I have come to the conclusion that its still pretty subpar. But I think there is a potential for a market opening to one of China's greediest build order, the no vil on the summer palace FF. With this BO you still get to age 3 around 7:30 with a shipment ready, but with 1-2 market techs already and enough eco to immediately start spamming territorial army.

The pros of this is that you can place the summer palace down a bit earlier due to not spending basically anytime chopping wood in the beginning and any wood treasure collected can be used to get more market techs to further boost eco.

So rough BO
Age 1
- start by getting 2 vils to shoot the closest animal then task them to wood to chop 5 wood. The rest of the vils can collect crate then immediately start gathering food.
- If there is any gold treasure nearby immediately collect as that is enough like 90% of the time to have enough gold to get hunting eagles. If not task 3 vils to collect 25 gold.
- start by building a market with the first 100 wood and then when the rest of the crates are gathered build a village. Then get hunting eagles (also task the goat to the village
- starting card is 2 vils and there should be about 14 vils by the time to place down the wonder at around 2:50 - 3:00 (eat the goat when the goat gets too about 110 food to ensure early age up)
- the moment the wonder is placed down and the first vil is queued place 4-5(4 if you get food treasures) vils on food and the rest on gold. the mining upgrade is optional and depends on treasures at this point.
- target gold treasures so that you can retask vils back to food earlier

Age 2
- Once 1000 gold is collected shift all vils onto food, 3 on the crates and the rest on the hunts. First card is 700 wood, do not collect until wonder is placed down.
- Once 1200 food is collected immediately place down the wonder ( tower for maximum greed), this should happen around 6:50 though I dont think my timings are good, and get 8 vils and get 3 vils to collect the wood crates. 5 vils on food and the rest on gold.
- Get vils to build a war academy, consulate, 1-2 villages ( or you can use the wood to get more upgrades).

Age 3
- set tower to wood and get around 14-15 vils on the mine( the number i found to get constant territorial army production), the rest on food.
- First card intervention and then just push.

[Plantinator]

Wait so i give up my 3 vil shipment/my age 1 tp to get 5% on hunts?

[Garja]

Nah just market instead of TP or village.

[Le Hussard sur le toit]

Wait so i give up my 3 vil shipment/my age 1 tp to get 5% on hunts?

You give up one vill for 5% on hunts (and a faster age up probably as you chop less wood), which means you only lose about half a vill if you have 10 vills on food.
Compared to the TP start you are saving one shipment which is better than a TP.

[Plantinator]

Wait so i give up my 3 vil shipment/my age 1 tp to get 5% on hunts?

You give up one vill for 5% on hunts (and a faster age up probably as you chop less wood), which means you only lose about half a vill if you have 10 vills on food.
Compared to the TP start you are saving one shipment which is better than a TP.

Wait how i save one shipment? I rather feel like u have less if u dont open tp

[Le Hussard sur le toit]

Wait so i give up my 3 vil shipment/my age 1 tp to get 5% on hunts?

You give up one vill for 5% on hunts (and a faster age up probably as you chop less wood), which means you only lose about half a vill if you have 10 vills on food.
Compared to the TP start you are saving one shipment which is better than a TP.

Wait how i save one shipment? I rather feel like u have less if u dont open tp

You don't send 700c, that's the point.

[Plantinator]

But cant u do that also with the tp start?

[helln00]

You can but I always felt having two shipment back to back was a bit inefficient. In this BO when you get to age 3 you are one shipment behind compared to a normal TP start but not by much and any treasures offsets that difference.

Any additional treasure also gets you more market techs so you can get more then 5% on hunt depending on how treasures pan out.

Also once you get to age 3 you can always get the tp with the tower on wood though with the war academy constantly producing I never found the time most of the time

[helln00]

Nah just market instead of TP or village.

so some sort of China 10/10?

[Garja]

No like just market+1 village instead of 2 villages or 1village+TP. But OP was suggesting that+ no 700g anyway.

[helln00]

Yeah i am trying to see if a more normal 700g 700w BO is good with decent with a market or not but it feels really bad most of the time, but it could just mean gettitng a TP in transition or putting like only 2 vils on the summer palace to offset the earlier wonder placement

[fei123456]

Does 5% gather rate work better than an extra vil+20 pop limit? I won't agree.
Also China has porcelain tower in age 3 (which means 8 vills), so the earlier you age up, the more "greedy" it is. That's why I don't prefer builds such as "no 700 coin FF": they're vulnerable to early pressure, while your economy isn't a lot better.

[helln00]

Does 5% gather rate work better than an extra vil+20 pop limit? I won't agree.
Also China has porcelain tower in age 3 (which means 8 vills), so the earlier you age up, the more "greedy" it is. That's why I don't prefer builds such as "no 700 coin FF": they're vulnerable to early pressure, while your economy isn't a lot better.

Yeah you can get pop capped with this build though since the summer palace completes later it helps time that better

In terms of age timing, I find it around the same as a more standard china FF though that could just me being bad at the standard build, so in terms of tower greed I find it the same but with additional market techs so to me its a bit greedier.

you get one less vil but on food it works out about the same as 15 vils with the market tech and you can get away with putting one less vil on food during age up and put more vils on gold, which balances it out.

Its definitely vulnerable to early pressure but I think it has its place if you know you arent getting pressured.