is russia actually that underpowered?

[Squamiger]

I know its at the bottom of all the tier lists. But I'm worried that the devs will overcorrect and make Russia insane if people keep repeating the idea that Russia is underpowered. I don't really think it is. Nothing has changed about the 5 coss / boyars timing / contain strategy from EP, which was very strong on many maps. And now I'm encountering lots of people doing Russia FFs with cav archers / strelets that seem quite powerful if you can abuse oprichniks and blockhouses. And then I can't forget the MILL GOD @khorix himself, making land Russia boom a thing.

EG: here's a game I just played vs. a Russia FF. I probably misplayed toward the end and I probably should have just rushed, but I thought i had a really strong start and that Russia just wouldn't be able to keep up unit production in fortress. Cav archer / strelet / falconets seems pretty powerful, at least it seemed hard to deal with for me as Haud with only musket riders and kanya as anti-artillery.

[Zutazuta]

you noobs just dont know how to play them...

Says a captain.

[helln00]

I think the problem with russia is the same as before, its a counterable one-trick pony for the most part. But yeah there is a real risk of overcorrection and I think the devs knows this. Its similar to china in that somehow trying to help their other options risks making their main option OP.

I do think their approach so far is right ( the cheaper church tech) but I think it might be a few more iterations before its no longer bottom

[fei123456]

It may not be that weak, but it's super boring to do 5 cossack rush all day.

[CR_Joops]

The church tech is a big thing imo. 900 wood seemed like a huge investment whereas 350 wood and coin (I think thats the new price...) feels like not really paying that much more than 200/200 for one upgrade.

Plus the Kalmuks and Ponies make the church tech actually worth sending.

[Kaiserklein]

Nothing has changed about the 5 coss / boyars timing / contain strategy from EP

Well what's changed is most civs have a much better start because of the starting crates, while russia can't e.g age a vil earlier or get a TP in age 1. Also you'd get more no TP maps on EP for sure, and even on the few no TP maps on DE they can drop a church nowadays.
Also russia was just not a good civ to begin with on RE (on maps with hunts), and I don't think they got any relevant buff on DE (regarding their colonial play) compared to RE. Except for the recent 10 pop bh buff, which I think is in the opposite direction of what we want, but that's another story.

[Kaiserklein]

Also just saw you actually played that game as iro vs russ on no TP lol. Obviously no TP maps are bad for iro, and you can't even build a church. And even then, if you grab a lot of lamas with farm start you're okay I think, as the MU is just good for iro overall. You should try that MU on a TP map and see how badly russia gets dicked on.

[Plantinator]

@Kaiserklein one question as haud in that mu do i still try to ff or just accept that i play colonial? Could some sort of kanya semi work?

[chronique]

I have always struggled as hauds vs russia (by lack of knowldege, russia was rare on DE)

[Kaiserklein]

You probably just defend easily and age, but I guess colonial also works

[Squamiger]

Also just saw you actually played that game as iro vs russ on no TP lol. Obviously no TP maps are bad for iro, and you can't even build a church. And even then, if you grab a lot of lamas with farm start you're okay I think, as the MU is just good for iro overall. You should try that MU on a TP map and see how badly russia gets dicked on.

yea, it was no TP but Russia did a straight FF, sorta negating their advantage they usually would have on no tp maps. And I got literally every llama + 2 sheep with my farm. Idk, I just felt like I had every advantage going into age 3-- aged up for free, and killed a house + market of his while he aged, with my toma BB. From everything everyone says about how bad Russia FF is, I was probably overconfident

[fei123456]

Russia naked FF is not a good idea. Unless you lost too many units to kill his cannons, Haud age III units are much better than Russian army. Russia need upgrade shipments to make their units cost-effective, while Haud don't.

[Kaiserklein]

I might watch the rec later but yeah russia ff should just be inferior to iro one

[Squamiger]

right, it definitely should be, and I definitely misplayed, but my larger point was just that its another kinda viable strat for aciv that already has very viable age 2 play, and while it could maybe use a slight buff I hope the devs don't overcorrect and make Russia extremely OP