How would you buff the Ottomans economically if you were the developer?

[CR_Joops]

Maybe they could give ottomans a logistician? They are the only euro civ without one and maybe it could be 1000 food, this would sacrifice aging fast if you choose to do this, and what it could do is make your unique mosque upgrades available in any age, and give a discount to the upgrades as well not sure how big the discount should be 40%? 50%? Maybe even 60%? Although 60 could be too strong so I’m leaning toward 50 or 40 percent

That's a good point. I didn't even realise they didn't have a 900f age up. Think basing it around the mosque would be a shout as it's a unique building.

The Ottos aren't a terrible civ though. They probably dont *need* balancing. Best way to balance Ottos is to remove the non-TP and water maps from QS.

lol remove water maps have no sense..

but yeah.. QS have to be with only TP maps.

Worded it badly. I meant remove maps that have neither TP nor water to balance Otto.

[klonko]

Maybe they could give ottomans a logistician? They are the only euro civ without one and maybe it could be 1000 food, this would sacrifice aging fast if you choose to do this, and what it could do is make your unique mosque upgrades available in any age, and give a discount to the upgrades as well not sure how big the discount should be 40%? 50%? Maybe even 60%? Although 60 could be too strong so I’m leaning toward 50 or 40 percent

That's a good point. I didn't even realise they didn't have a 900f age up. Think basing it around the mosque would be a shout as it's a unique building.

The Ottos aren't a terrible civ though. They probably dont *need* balancing. Best way to balance Ottos is to remove the non-TP and water maps from QS.

lol remove water maps have no sense..

but yeah.. QS have to be with only TP maps.

Or add native TP some XP trickle so they see some play.

[abusjan]

Otto is garbage. It has no advantages other than a quick epoch, and the troop variety is low. Each military unit requires separate barracks to train. Workers who are free but twice as slow are not an advantage. The economy sucks and the soldiers are average.The weakest country I've ever seen. It should definitely be balanced.

[Peachrocks]

Otto is the biggest civ that points out the flaws in the tp/no tp map ordeal. Personally I think as long as you are not on a no water/no tp map Otto's economy is okay. They need to be able to put their starting wood into some sort of meaningful economic advantage asap otherwise they are significantly weaker.

With all the mosque ups you get pretty close to the standard time required to train the vills and they are free after that, not an insignificant advantage with multiple town centers. You really do not want to enable the dumb crap that they used to be capable of again. Plus Nizam's are really quite good and potentially toxic if not handled carefully.

[helln00]

I do think though Otto kinda points to how some of the problems with the TPs problem can be addressed. Churches and mosque generating xp does allow them more of their options on non-tp maps, I think that we can develop on that further, maybe by allowing upgrades( either by card or reasearch) to increase the trickle or decrease the cost of church techs like otto has to allow for Mercantilism to be an option for age 3, which will allow for FFs

[Squamiger]

dont buff the ottomans economically just nerf other civs economically

[CR_Joops]

Give Otto 400f start

[Jets]

Reduce jans HP and their cost by at least 10 food.

[klonko]

Give free silk road age2? Is it a huge buff?

[look]

church (200w cost) +50 from 150w.
generate xp like a tp,
then we can play in anymap.

[helln00]

I have been thinking about maybe reworking mercantilism to make it like how the village cap tech works.

So maybe

age 1 - 250gold for 300 xp
age 2 - 300 gold for 500 xp
age 3 - 750 gold for 1k xp
then age 4 is the same as it is now.

basically a way for civs to trade resources for xp like in the market

also allowing church in age 1 for euro civs, and then Otto can get a buffed mosque with more xp trickle but higher cost

[Veer_84]

Give free silk road age2? Is it a huge buff?

I was thinking of a Logistician Politician that makes settler training time upgrades from the mosque free. You'll still have to build a mosque and research the upgrades but they'll be free. That would make Ottomans competent once again against civs like Sweden, Portuguese or the Spanish.

Also bring back 235 HP Janissaries and faster, firing Abus Guns that cost 50 coin less.

Ottomans in DE remind me of Spain in TAD. The Logistician bonus made Spain competitive once again. I hope a similar thing is done with the Ottomans. Otherwise, right now they're truly a D tier civ.

[NekoBerk]

Give free silk road age2? Is it a huge buff?

I was thinking of a Logistician Politician that makes settler training time upgrades from the mosque free. You'll still have to build a mosque and research the upgrades but they'll be free. That would make Ottomans competent once again against civs like Sweden, Portuguese or the Spanish.

Also bring back 235 HP Janissaries and faster, firing Abus Guns that cost 50 coin less.

Ottomans in DE remind me of Spain in TAD. The Logistician bonus made Spain competitive once again. I hope a similar thing is done with the Ottomans. Otherwise, right now they're truly a D tier civ.

Spain is competitive since the release of DE. Logistician can be countered by any 1500+ elo
And it doesn't work for booming on land that's a fake eco.

[Hazza54321]

I would give them a tc wagon age 2 for some gold like the incan one and see it play out from there. Right now their only strategic option is silk road tower ff or normal tower ff, anything age 2 is just kinda bad because they dont have an economic follow up and their units have been nerfed

[CR_Joops]

Give free silk road age2? Is it a huge buff?

I was thinking of a Logistician Politician that makes settler training time upgrades from the mosque free. You'll still have to build a mosque and research the upgrades but they'll be free. That would make Ottomans competent once again against civs like Sweden, Portuguese or the Spanish.

Also bring back 235 HP Janissaries and faster, firing Abus Guns that cost 50 coin less.

Ottomans in DE remind me of Spain in TAD. The Logistician bonus made Spain competitive once again. I hope a similar thing is done with the Ottomans. Otherwise, right now they're truly a D tier civ.

I mean all of those bonuses would be ludicrous.

[duckzilla]

faster, firing Abus Guns that cost 50 coin less

and either 1 pop or an area effect of 2, obviously.

[xitaxuta]

I would give them a tc wagon age 2 for some gold like the incan one and see it play out from there. Right now their only strategic option is silk road tower ff or normal tower ff, anything age 2 is just kinda bad because they dont have an economic follow up and their units have been nerfed

they need more versatility.. they are way to predictable.. and their cards are bad. by nerfing janisarry cost they should've compensated and increased the cards 6jans > 5jans and 10-9jans > 8jans.. also why they still have 3 abus cards in age2 and no janissary buff card ??
i would change the abus cards into janisarry combat type card. 10% or 15% buff to jans.. or move janissary combat to age2

[Hawk_Girl]

Well they could stop listening to EP Team first if they really want to balance patch.

The games balance has nothing to do with EP or its members since its games release.

Well when they released DE, they took many/most of the things from EP, consulted EP team, probably still do. EP 8 was shit and DE on release was shit. They need to consult with people who actually spent time understanding the original game design/thought process behind original game rather than biased top players with zero clue about game balancing.

You are def in the category of "zero clue"

[princeofcarthage]

Show hidden quotes

Well they could stop listening to EP Team first if they really want to balance patch.

The games balance has nothing to do with EP or its members since its games release.

Well when they released DE, they took many/most of the things from EP, consulted EP team, probably still do. EP 8 was shit and DE on release was shit. They need to consult with people who actually spent time understanding the original game design/thought process behind original game rather than biased top players with zero clue about game balancing.

You are def in the category of "zero clue"

Are you calling me a top player? Finally someone

[xitaxuta]

Millet System - 50 wood: Settler spawn time -5 seconds also Increase XP/rate from Mosque by 10%
Koprulu Viziers - 125 wood: Settler spawn time -5 seconds and also Increase XP/rate from Mosque by 10%
Grand Bazaar - 300 wood: Settler spawn time -8 seconds and also Increase XP/rate from Mosque by 10%

Topkapi - 200w 200g Increase Settler limit from 45 to 70 Moved to Commerce age

New Order Infantry - 2500w - Delivers 15 Nizam Fusilier Changed to 2500f
Advanced Arsenal - Moves the Arsenal Improvements to Commerce Delivers 1 Arsenal Wagon

Janissary - 90f 25g - 2.5x vs Calvary in Melee Mode
Janissary Combat - All Actions Damage and Hitpoint increased by 20% Moved to Commerce Age

Abus Gun - 20% Ranged Resist Changed to 40% Ranged Resist

[Challenger_Marco]

Millet System - 50 wood: Settler spawn time -5 seconds also Increase XP/rate from Mosque by 10%
Koprulu Viziers - 125 wood: Settler spawn time -5 seconds and also Increase XP/rate from Mosque by 10%
Grand Bazaar - 300 wood: Settler spawn time -8 seconds and also Increase XP/rate from Mosque by 10%

The xp buff for mosque might help otto in non tp maps ,feels like you gotta reduce the resources on train time so it becomes viable to play on non tp map.

Topkapi - 200w 200g Increase Settler limit from 45 to 70 Moved to Commerce age

I like this idea but it should be a overall change to all civs.

Advanced Arsenal - Moves the Arsenal Improvements to Commerce Delivers 1 Arsenal Wagon

Rest i feel will make otto too op.

[xitaxuta]

Rest i feel will make otto too op.

perhaps .. their army needs some adjustment though.. janissaries dies too fast without upgrades and they dont have anything else to deal with cavalry in age2..

still otto is too predictable! any player 1500elo that knows how to scout can easily know how to counter what the otto is doing.

btw are they the only civ that make only 1 type unit out of barracks?

[aaryngend]

I always said that it was a bad idea to nerf Jannissary HP so much. What is the consensus right now?

[dansil92]

I always said that it was a bad idea to nerf Jannissary HP so much. What is the consensus right now?

well with jans nerfed to oblivion, looks like its time to invest in a 5 huss semi ff into (checks notes) cav archer & abus gun?
@devs plz buff otto

[xitaxuta]

Millet System - 50w - Reduces Setter Training Time by 5sec also Increases Mosque XP Rate by 10%
Koprulu Viziers - 125w - Reduces Setter Training Time by 5sec also Increases Mosque XP Rate by 20%
Grand Bazaar - 300w - Reduces Setter Training Time by 8sec also Increases Mosque XP Rate by 30%

Palace Intrigue Card - Increases the Mosque build Limit by 3 (4 Total) - Mosque Trickle Rate can be set to Resources

Percentage and cost are rough numbers and could be adjusted accordingly to be more or less on par with TPs xp/resources rate which are roughly 3vills each after stage coach if i'm not mistaken?