Japanese 7 Lucky Gods Semi FF

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Germany AndiAOE
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Japanese 7 Lucky Gods Semi FF

Post by AndiAOE »

Hello Community,

so i ve been trying to make 7 Lucky Gods work (Japanese shrines can gather XP) and this is the Build Order i had the most success with. It works decently on ladder, but also doesnt seem to be broken. It is very fun to spam shipments and end the game with 50% more shipments than your opponent though :)

First of what the 7 LG actually does:
7 Lucky Gods mechanics
Core ideas behind using 7 Lucky Gods:
With Heavenly Kami sent and shrines on xp, japan becomes a bit like spain. Very fast shipments, but weak eco otherwise. Just look at what spain excels at - They are good at FF'ing, so this is also the core idea for the build order we are using. Since we need at least 2 cards to utilize (7 LG + 600 wood to get boom going) we do a semi ff build. Yes Semi FF Gang strikes again ;). If the enemy is playing agressive you can also stay prolonged in age 2 and use the unit shipments / Town militia card to stabilize.
We need to use the Heavenly Kami, since it synergizes so well with 7 lucky gods.
We are also utilizing the fact that you can send most japanese card 2 times. This means we will not run out of cards.

Build order:
Gather starting ress (except coin)
Build consulate (2-3 vills) + get port ally, gather 7 wood and build a shrine
try to get food treasures, so age up is smoother
age up with Torji gates
During age up you need to build one shrine
Build a stable with the rickshaw, get one batch of nagis and be annoying. - If being rushed use the 5 ashi cards
- Use the 600 Wood to shrineboom
- With 600 coin save up for age up
- Age up with Tokugawa shogunate

Card Progression:
Heavenly Kami - 600 wood - 7 LG - 600 coin - 600 wood - Age 3 Unit shipment(s)


Video:
Video


What are your thoughts about the Build order? Aiz said @Mitoe had a Build order for 7 LG.
Thanks and have a good evening! ;)
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Post by Guigs »

Honestly every time I tried to pull that off it only worked vs passive civs like dutch, or vs china ff and spam ashi nagi shipments
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Re: Japanese 7 Lucky Gods Semi FF

Post by dansil92 »

Yes, mitoe used this once to great effect, even using the (gasp) 7 ashi shipment. I'm not sure exactly how much his build differs from this as I've never seen it written out
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Re: Japanese 7 Lucky Gods Semi FF

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Post by Mitoe »

IMO you need to age with the Toshugu instead of Torii because it increases the gather rate of shrines, which means more xp.

I also never send 7 lucky gods that early in age 2; you can just play pretty normal builds until you start going Fortress, and then send the card. Even if you send it in transition to Fortress you will still get tons of shipments back to back. Actually, a lot of the time you don't even need the shogunate. You can even do crazy stuff like 600w > 600c (age with Pavilion) > send 7 lucky gods > send Daimyo > now you hit Fortress and send unit shipments. Although, maybe sending ashi attack and aging with Shogunate is better, since you want the cheaper and faster training units with this build.



Also important to have as many shrines as possible, even if not on hunt, because the base gather rate of shrines on xp is so high that the hunt doesn't matter as much once you have Kami + Toshugu combo.
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Re: Japanese 7 Lucky Gods Semi FF

Post by lordraphael »

Mitoe wrote:IMO you need to age with the Toshugu instead of Torii because it increases the gather rate of shrines, which means more xp.

I also never send 7 lucky gods that early in age 2; you can just play pretty normal builds until you start going Fortress, and then send the card. Even if you send it in transition to Fortress you will still get tons of shipments back to back. Actually, a lot of the time you don't even need the shogunate. You can even do crazy stuff like 600w > 600c (age with Pavilion) > send 7 lucky gods > send Daimyo > now you hit Fortress and send unit shipments. Although, maybe sending ashi attack and aging with Shogunate is better, since you want the cheaper and faster training units with this build.



Also important to have as many shrines as possible, even if not on hunt, because the base gather rate of shrines on xp is so high that the hunt doesn't matter as much once you have Kami + Toshugu combo.
how much xp do 20shrines give ?
breeze wrote: they cant even guess how much f***ing piece of stupid retarded they look they are trying to give lesson to people who are over pr35 and know the best mu. im pretty sure that we need a page that only pr30+ post and then we could have a nice discussins.
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Re: Japanese 7 Lucky Gods Semi FF

Post by Mitoe »

lordraphael wrote:
Mitoe wrote:IMO you need to age with the Toshugu instead of Torii because it increases the gather rate of shrines, which means more xp.

I also never send 7 lucky gods that early in age 2; you can just play pretty normal builds until you start going Fortress, and then send the card. Even if you send it in transition to Fortress you will still get tons of shipments back to back. Actually, a lot of the time you don't even need the shogunate. You can even do crazy stuff like 600w > 600c (age with Pavilion) > send 7 lucky gods > send Daimyo > now you hit Fortress and send unit shipments. Although, maybe sending ashi attack and aging with Shogunate is better, since you want the cheaper and faster training units with this build.



Also important to have as many shrines as possible, even if not on hunt, because the base gather rate of shrines on xp is so high that the hunt doesn't matter as much once you have Kami + Toshugu combo.
how much xp do 20shrines give ?
I think I shrine with no animals gives 0.7 xp with kami and toshugu, and around 0.9 or 1 xp with animals. So about 0.8 - 1 TP per shrine
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Re: Japanese 7 Lucky Gods Semi FF

Post by aaryngend »

Mitoe wrote:I think I shrine with no animals gives 0.7 xp with kami and toshugu, and around 0.9 or 1 xp with animals. So about 0.8 - 1 TP per shrine
I doubt the values are that high tbh. By your stats, Lucky Gods + 20 shrines and Toshogu+Kami would equal the XP rate of 16-20(!) TPs. Surely can't be that high can it?
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Re: Japanese 7 Lucky Gods Semi FF

Post by harcha »

it can
POC wrote:Also I most likely know a whole lot more than you.
POC wrote:Also as an objective third party, and near 100% accuracy of giving correct information, I would say my opinions are more reliable than yours.
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Re: Japanese 7 Lucky Gods Semi FF

Post by dansil92 »

its like 20 tps or something gross
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Re: Japanese 7 Lucky Gods Semi FF

Post by lordraphael »

Sounds good
breeze wrote: they cant even guess how much f***ing piece of stupid retarded they look they are trying to give lesson to people who are over pr35 and know the best mu. im pretty sure that we need a page that only pr30+ post and then we could have a nice discussins.
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Re: Japanese 7 Lucky Gods Semi FF

Post by Mitoe »

Oh, the OP actually already answered this question, we just don't know how to read
7 LG increases the build bounty to 37 XP & Enables a Xp Trickle, where each shrine has a base xp gather rate of 0.34 xp/sec. It is significantly higher than all the other shrine base rates (0.14 for food and 0.1 for wood/coin). With heavenly Kami you can increase this to 0.51 xp per shrine. Built around herds, you can typically achieve 0.83 xp/sec/shrine. Herds and livestock increase XP gather rate the same way as they do for other res gather rate (0.1 - 0.14 /livestock & 0.07 - 0.08/herd).
Base Rate 0.34 xp/sec (!). Tempo Reforms and Toshugu shrine dont increase the gathering of xp.
So that means in a normal game you can typically get 0.83 xp/sec/shrine, when built around herds. For a quick comparison a TP gives 1.2 xp/ sec (roughly). So 2 Shrines > 1 TP (with herds/ Kami).
One correction: pretty sure TPs do not give 1.2xp per second on DE; it's less that it was on Legacy because it was nerfed by 15% in the final version of EP before DE got released.
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Re: Japanese 7 Lucky Gods Semi FF

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Post by helln00 »

Hmm if xp generation is that high, might it not be worth it to drop into the spanish consulate and get that research that reduces the time for shipments to arrive? Merchant marine I think it was
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Re: Japanese 7 Lucky Gods Semi FF

Post by AndiAOE »

Lecastete wrote:Honestly every time I tried to pull that off it only worked vs passive civs like dutch, or vs china ff and spam ashi nagi shipments
Yeah i also had trouble against strong age 2 timing attacks / rushes / containments.
Mitoe wrote:IMO you need to age with the Toshugu instead of Torii because it increases the gather rate of shrines, which means more xp.

I also never send 7 lucky gods that early in age 2; you can just play pretty normal builds until you start going Fortress, and then send the card. Even if you send it in transition to Fortress you will still get tons of shipments back to back. Actually, a lot of the time you don't even need the shogunate. You can even do crazy stuff like 600w > 600c (age with Pavilion) > send 7 lucky gods > send Daimyo > now you hit Fortress and send unit shipments. Although, maybe sending ashi attack and aging with Shogunate is better, since you want the cheaper and faster training units with this build.



Also important to have as many shrines as possible, even if not on hunt, because the base gather rate of shrines on xp is so high that the hunt doesn't matter as much once you have Kami + Toshugu combo.
Thanks for the additions. I am pretty sure the Wonder shrine does not increase the XP gather rate (at least from my testing. See 1:58 in the video).
helln00 wrote:Hmm if xp generation is that high, might it not be worth it to drop into the spanish consulate and get that research that reduces the time for shipments to arrive? Merchant marine I think it was
I also tried it with spanish consulate. But then you need to ship 300 export or good faith agreements. This also means that you can not use the crossbows and can only make pikemen(Later on), which are not as useful as crossbows in your timing. Also by using the Daymo the slower arriving Shipments is not the biggest of deals, since you can spawn them at the front anyway. So i usually would rather have some other age 2 card (Unit upgrade, 600 ress, 4 vills) or save up the age 3 card and send one more shipment (a bit delayed) in age 3.
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Re: Japanese 7 Lucky Gods Semi FF

Post by Mitoe »

Hmm, yeah you seem to be correct. It only affects food, wood, and coin.
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Re: Japanese 7 Lucky Gods Semi FF

Post by Scylla-x »

sounds interesting, nice work I will try this out for sure.

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