African civs post-nerf

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African civs post-nerf

Post by helln00 »

Just wanted to check on the situation of Hausa and Ethiopia post nerf. After playing aoe 4 for the weekend I have lost all memories of my hotkeys so if there are any brain dead bot African strat, I want to use them for a bit.
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Post by Sensei »

evolve
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Re: African civs post-nerf

Post by helln00 »

any recommendation for evolution? I am trying morrocan ff now but it feels too all in
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Post by DNLgibraltar »

I have watched the last match of SoldieR's stream yesterday.

His confusing face while facing 7.25 speed Griots with 666hp who were stunning his army to death was funny as heck
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Re: African civs post-nerf

Post by gibson »

Obviously not as good but still probably too good
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Post by harcha »

I feel like it is necessary to have a tournament with some african laming so that we could pinpoint exactly which parts are too strong and which parts of the civ can be considered as weaknesses (every civ needs some weakness).
POC wrote:Also I most likely know a whole lot more than you.
POC wrote:Also as an objective third party, and near 100% accuracy of giving correct information, I would say my opinions are more reliable than yours.
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Re: African civs post-nerf

Post by helln00 »

Griots do feel a bit too op right now, could be fixed by giving them infantry tag like the warrior priest and reduce their range resist.

That and reduce the radius of the upgrade card, combined with fulani they can just turn battles on their heads.

Other then that they feel almost fragile tbh cause of their lacklustre eco. almost like playing china.

the fulani-griot deathball FF seems to be the new OP build, but atleast then they feel somewhat vulnerable to an early timing.
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Re: African civs post-nerf

Post by Joe »

Hausa has free spanish gold lol the eco isnt even weak
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Re: African civs post-nerf

Post by gibson »

Getting a cow with every shipment is way worse than Spanish gold lol
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Re: African civs post-nerf

Post by Youssef »

gibson wrote:Getting a cow with every shipment is way worse than Spanish gold lol
but hausa get a cow since first shipment and u can change it into gold or wood, or u can gather like food. Imo this mechanic is completely broken and should be reworked
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Re: African civs post-nerf

Post by gibson »

Youssef wrote:
gibson wrote:Getting a cow with every shipment is way worse than Spanish gold lol
but hausa get a cow since first shipment and u can change it into gold or wood, or u can gather like food. Imo this mechanic is completely broken and should be reworked
aYes but like all livestock it’s a very delayed return. Not saying it might not need a tweak but it’s just not as good as Spanish gold and if it’s not balanced could easily be balanced by just changing values. It’s nowhere near completely broken.
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Re: African civs post-nerf

Post by DNLgibraltar »

gibson wrote:
Youssef wrote:
gibson wrote:Getting a cow with every shipment is way worse than Spanish gold lol
but hausa get a cow since first shipment and u can change it into gold or wood, or u can gather like food. Imo this mechanic is completely broken and should be reworked
aYes but like all livestock it’s a very delayed return. Not saying it might not need a tweak but it’s just not as good as Spanish gold and if it’s not balanced could easily be balanced by just changing values. It’s nowhere near completely broken.
They are like a market inside a market but the buy rate improves drastically with time. And they don't lose resources when trading.
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Re: African civs post-nerf

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Post by Kawapasaka »

I think getting rid of the free stagecoach would be a good start though I'm not even sure how impactful it'd be since I'm pretty sure I've seen no-TP builds working just fine with these civs. Also maybe toning back EVERYTHING shadowteching.
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Re: African civs post-nerf

Post by aligator92 »

Kawapasaka wrote: Also maybe toning back EVERYTHING shadowteching.
Yeah, I am surprised that there are not more FF and FI builds with all the shadow teaching units. I guess the aggro options have been good enough so far
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Re: African civs post-nerf

Post by DNLgibraltar »

aligator92 wrote:
Kawapasaka wrote: Also maybe toning back EVERYTHING shadowteching.
Yeah, I am surprised that there are not more FF and FI builds with all the shadow teaching units. I guess the aggro options have been good enough so far
I think we are all stuck in our tempo and modus operandi (meta). "Free" and good units that shadowtech would be something to be praised but people don't mind it yet. If the devs EVER rework the Legacy minor natives and the core mechanics we might see a comeback to re-balance this mechanic as well as several cards and Inca shenanigans.

In a cold analysis shadowteching them is huge because they are very good (although the cost is half the price since DE).
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Re: African civs post-nerf

Post by Thrar »

I've been experimenting with a falc FF with Hausa when playing against civs that outboom in age 2 and are able to hold early pressure (e.g. Brits, Japanese). It goes roughly like this:

First card is the 15% eco boost, sell cow for house and hunting upgrade, go up 12/20 with Songhai. In transition, keep gathering food. With some treasures, gathering 100w/100c for the second food upgrade works without delaying the build.
Once in age 3, immediately send 700c, gather the 300c from age up, and keep gathering food with everyone else. Use the builder for a war camp. Age up with Fulani as soon as the coin is gathered up (14/20 with some idle time or 15/20 waiting ~10 seconds for the vil to pop). In transition, get the second food upgrade (if not already earlier) and the first coin upgrade. Sell a cow for wood to make houses and start making batches of javelin riders with all available resources (roughly even spread of vils between food/coin).
Shortly before the age up bar reaches the A in "Age", send the age 1 card that delivers the builders (will be a university, palace, TP in age 3).
Upon age up, place those builders down, with the uni overlapping both TC and palace and if the map permits also a TP. When the palace is built, immediately research the cannon tech. When that's almost done, sell one more cow for wood, then get royal banquet to convert all livestock to influence. Queue a falconet. You should have enough for 5 cannons by the time the batch pops.

At 10:00 you have 5 falconets and 20-25 javelin riders plus whatever you sent with your first age 3 shipment.

What do you think of this?

Notes:
  • Obviously it's quite slow, but the javelin rider batches start coming out time to keep a booming opponent busy. Don't do this against an opponent who will be aggressive in early age 2.
  • Fulani age up is needed to get enough influence for a full cannon batch, but it could be something else too on a map with livestock or if you decide you're fine with just 3 cannons. Maybe Akan for the units is an option too, or even Hausa for catching up in eco.
  • There is a semi-FF variant where you open with 10/10 into tower and spend the first shipment on the outlaws, then ship 700c next and age up one shipment later. I didn't try this one much yet but it might have some promise.
  • 4 cows as first shipment instead of the 15% upgrade might work. There isn't much to spend the cows on early, but it could allow using a different age up by selling a cow for coin. The extra cows might also mean that the Fulani age up isn't needed, so you might be able to go for Akan and still get 5 falcs. On the other hand, you're around 2 vils down the whole time and more as the game goes on.
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Re: African civs post-nerf

Post by Thrar »

Looking at Ethiopians this time, I haven't found anything regarding strategies for the October patch. Looking at their cards, nothing immediately stood out to me as a power spike and I could only see two things that looked promising: Abuns/monasteries for a small boom and the Sevastopol mortar.

With that in mind, I've been experimenting with an abun semi-FF:

Open with granary and selling a cow for the house and hunting upgrade as usual. Send 2 vils and abun. When the cow price reaches 170w (or earlier if you found wood treasures), sell a cow and have the abun build a monastery. Switch it to 100% coin immediately. Age up with Habesha (camp wagon and 300c).
In transition, overgather 50f for the wood upgrade, then send everyone to wood except for 2 herders. When you get 170w, build another monastery with the abun.
The easiest to macro is the no-military variant where you chop for another 200w, make a house, then send vils to food in time to queue a vil before hitting age 2. Send a few vils to coin and gather the age up coin. Ship 4 vils, then 700c. Queue the second hunting upgrade and an abun immediately. Ideally you gather enough coin to get 4 abuns in one batch but it doesn't always work out without treasures. Task the abuns on the monastery when they pop, otherwise they just stand around looking stupid. Switch the monastery to 50/50.
Gather 700c. You may need to keep a few vils on the monastery to get the age up coin in time, or sell 1-2 batches of food at the market (or a cow). Click up with any alliance. I've been doing Somali for the units to defend the mortar but I'm not sure if that's the best option. Since the monasteries were on 50/50, you will have 450 influence soon after clicking up, get the fast age tech and hit age 3 around 7:30 with no treasures. You can then set the monasteries back to full coin if you're not planning to use influence.
In transition, make any unit and macro accordingly. Gascenya seem to make sense to protect the mortar, but cav might be an option too. You'll hit age 3 with a shipment and enough time/resources to make 2 batches in transition. Selling a cow for wood to build houses might be a good idea.

Notes:
  • It's possible to do this as a semi, making either gascenya or shotel in age 2. Shotel are easier to macro since you're already on food/coin but not that useful to defend the mortar later. Gascenya are a bit complicated, you'll need a lot more wood. I haven't quite figured out the macro for that but it probably involves gathering even more in transition, selling a cow for wood, and possibly delaying the second hunting upgrade since wood is needed for housing. With 2 batches in age 2, I'm able to hit age 3 around 8:20 (no treasures) which is about 20 seconds later than the French 10-musk semi for comparison, with marginally stronger eco.
  • 4 vils doesn't feel great as a shipment. I didn't see any strong alternatives though. 700w perhaps for houses and more gascenya?
  • Habesha to age 2 seems good. Both the coin and the camp are useful so it's worth 200w 300c. The age 3 alliance is wide open though.
  • Not sure what are the best units in age 3. Gascenya are nice because you can make them in transition or as a semi, but they cost wood so the abuns are not helping directly. Perhaps a few batches of Neftenya in age 3. Or would javelins and then oromo be worth trying?
What do you think? Do you have any other ideas for Ethiopians?
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Re: African civs post-nerf

Post by Garja »

African civs need a 300f starting cattle and 2.5 f/s gathering rate reverted in order to age up at a more reasonable time (3.05 instead of 3.10 if you're lucky).
Also a 5v card instead of 4v wouldn't be bad.
Thrar wrote:I've been experimenting with a falc FF with Hausa
Same build as mine but I don't use the builder card, but rather 700 influence or palace+300 influence. It's not great anyway imo, artillery not a great choice unless culvs vs mass cannons. Also sell a cattle and make TP in transition asap.

Thrar wrote:Looking at Ethiopians this time, ...

What do you think? Do you have any other ideas for Ethiopians?
Ethiopians have at least 2 age2 good builds imo.
One is simply gascenya+other units, the other is cannoneer+support unit. Both builds with a TP in transition by sending 1 cattle. Also with Ethiopia I buy wood with the monastery gold when making gascenya.

For gascenya spam go 2v+abun, 700w, bigcow, 600w, bigcow, etc. Drop 2nd rax with 700w and have all vills gathering food. Can add the shock infantry or age up at any point sending 700g. Can also add neftanya with the age1 card.

For the cannoneer build (which is similar to otto builds) I go 2v+abun, 200influence card for next shipments, palace+300influence, 700influence, 8 cannoneer. Of course age up with Ports in order to unlock cannoneers at the palace. I usually switch the TP and the monastery to influence.
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Re: African civs post-nerf

Post by osteoblaste »

Why would you waste ur influence with artillery semi-ff.. Lifidi +akan mix is way more stronger and u can mass them from age 2.
U can easily spamm them with 2 rax.
Vills food mostly, few gold, use cattle for wood and golf when needed.
Javelin solder suck at covering ur artillery, u need heavy infantry for that since ur opponent gonna outmass u by 10 min..
Better to play age 2 eco mostly
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Post by tabben »

GODsteoblaste
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Re: African civs post-nerf

Post by ziper »

Sudan Alliance, send 700 influence, mass Gasc and Dervish, have 30+ Gasc plus 15 dervish at 7:00, WIN
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Re: African civs post-nerf

Post by Garja »

Lifidi+akan is a bit overrated, they're both expensive and lack dps. They do have ups tho, and sometimes you just want musk/cav combo. Can add fulani if needed I guess.
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Re: African civs post-nerf

Post by Garja »

Btw granary attracting animals is a garbage mechanic imo. Most of times you have to go around the thing to shoot at animals. If you don't micro the vills (which is the supposed advantage since hunts come back automatically) then they end up walking a lot and each animal can only be gathered by few of them because one side is occupied by the granary.
Either remove the magnet mechanic or (if possible) make dead animals not lose food when in granary range.
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Re: African civs post-nerf

Post by gibson »

Attracting animals is a huge negative actually. I guess the father rate increase sort of balances it out though
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Re: African civs post-nerf

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Post by somp »

osteoblaste wrote:Why would you waste ur influence with artillery semi-ff.. Lifidi +akan mix is way more stronger and u can mass them from age 2.
U can easily spamm them with 2 rax.
Vills food mostly, few gold, use cattle for wood and golf when needed.
Javelin solder suck at covering ur artillery, u need heavy infantry for that since ur opponent gonna outmass u by 10 min..
Better to play age 2 eco mostly
U forgot the part where you put the maphack on and then after still losing, you OOS the game.

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