how to beat russia as haud

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United States of America Squamiger
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how to beat russia as haud

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Post by Squamiger »

Definitely struggling, maybe just bc i keep matching against a russia player who's 100 elo higher than me. He just masses and doesn't overcommit. There's no way to push his blockhouse in age 2, and if I try to age he just right clicks me with musk coss strel. I tried a more eco-style age 2 timing with 5 vills and crates, and I also tried a more aggressive build with bb and shipping 4 kanya first. Either way he just easily holds.
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Italy Garja
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Re: how to beat russia as haud

Post by Garja »

if he builds in base and you do a 5 toma semi there should be no way he can punish. If you want to take the age2 challenge then you have to go as greedy as you can and prioritize aenna and kanya
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Re: how to beat russia as haud

Post by Squamiger »

Yea, he doesn’t build in base, it’s a forward Bh, but without committing. Just containing and raiding and massing, and then right click if I age, or defending if I push the bh
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Re: how to beat russia as haud

Post by Garja »

hmm if he fb you should be able to punish hard with old fast age and units
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Re: how to beat russia as haud

Post by helln00 »

time for manlets?
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Re: how to beat russia as haud

Post by dansil92 »

fast age - > town destroyer - > gg ez no re
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Re: how to beat russia as haud

Post by judge_aeo »

it takes cavalry to win against russia, best combo musk and cavalry for russia,
and you must constantly raid food
you just waited to die
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Re: how to beat russia as haud

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Post by Mitoe »

I played a pretty good game in this matchup vs diarouga back during the 2019 LAN that might be worth checking out: https://youtu.be/X3a1VFatFMc?t=32291

Normally early TP + fast age is good, but if I remember correctly the build I used to do is something like this on stagecoach maps:

1) If there is a wood treasure nearby go for an early TP.
2) If the map is good for stagecoach then save the wood until later.

Aim for a 14 villager age up with Wise Woman. This is important, especially if you are planning to go stagecoach. It means you get to place your warhut forward rather than defensively, so eat any livestock you have to get that age up on time!

Next:

- Switch 12-13 villagers to wood.
- You should be able to build 2 TPs in transition and a 3rd shortly after you age. Build all of them with your Warchief.
- When you reach Commerce, send the Warhut forward. Be careful not to place it in front of any TPs, always place it a quarter or half screen behind any TP. This diverts attention away from your Warhut and makes it easier to defend both the TP and the Warhut.
- Use the Wise Woman crates to queue stagecoach ASAP. Switch about half vills back to food so you can start saving for the Big Button tomahawks. The wood vills will get you your Longhouse. Once stagecoach is complete you can put them all on wood and put most villagers on food.
- Usually my shipment order is 5v > 4 Kanya > 7 Aenna > 6 Tomahawk > 6 Aenna. Basically just vills and then only units, but you can ship these in any order if you want. Eventually the wood from stagecoach will get you your Stable, which you can fuel later with 600w.

There are a few things to keep in mind:

1) Keep track of his Cossack shipments. You want to focus your composition around Aenna with just enough tomahawks to defend them. Generally you should never make more than 15 tomahawks as the absolute maximum until later when he is able to train Cossacks from a stable or two. Ideal number is 10-15, then prioritize Aenna and Kanya.
2) You don't need to play aggressively at the start if you've successfully got your stagecoach up. Just hold your part of the map with Aenna.
3) You win late age 2 with the 3 homecity upgrades and Firepit, don't try to age unless you are pretty far ahead.


There is a timing somewhere in here where you can break his Blockhouse, but unfortunately I can't remember exactly when that is :(

The matchup may have changed with Russian buffs recently, but give it a shot.
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Re: how to beat russia as haud

Post by Squamiger »

Garja wrote:
28 Feb 2022, 02:39
hmm if he fb you should be able to punish hard with old fast age and units
He has the advantage here in scouting though. If he sees I fast age, he can just bh in base. If he sees that I’m slow aging, then it’s game on with the forward bh contain
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Re: how to beat russia as haud

Post by Squamiger »

judge_aeo wrote:
28 Feb 2022, 03:27
it takes cavalry to win against russia, best combo musk and cavalry for russia,
and you must constantly raid food
you just waited to die
I don’t think any (relatively balanced) matchup requires you to raid in order to win. Build orders have counters, so that’s what I’m asking for

@Mitoe thanks I will check this out when I’m back at the computer
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Re: how to beat russia as haud

Post by louis293 »

Squamiger wrote:
28 Feb 2022, 05:07
Garja wrote:
28 Feb 2022, 02:39
hmm if he fb you should be able to punish hard with old fast age and units
He has the advantage here in scouting though. If he sees I fast age, he can just bh in base. If he sees that I’m slow aging, then it’s game on with the forward bh contain
yeah i agree vs haud as russia i pull vills forward and bring them back if fast age up (exactly like in the game kaiserklein vs diarouga in esoc premier league match) , mitoe said that late age 2 haud wins but is it really ? boyars is very powerfull and it affects coss/strlet vs toma/aenna so it kinda gives a composition advantage but most important imo russia eco scales much much better than haud i think.
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Re: how to beat russia as haud

Post by Kaiserklein »

Think this MU is pretty trash for russia tbh. You can just go fortress as iro usually, a quick semi should do just fine
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Re: how to beat russia as haud

Post by fei123456 »

Send 4 Kanya first, and do a semiFF with 4 Kanya and 10-15 infantry units.
Russia has a fierce early timing with 5 cossacks, and they overwhelms you after 9-10 minutes with better eco. But they're weak between 5-9 minutes, and they generally try to defend with 2 or even more blockhouses. You defend with Kanya and warhut first, and he can't prevent you from going fortress then.
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Re: how to beat russia as haud

Post by EliteRifleman »

Squamiger wrote:
28 Feb 2022, 01:48
Definitely struggling, maybe just bc i keep matching against a russia player who's 100 elo higher than me. He just masses and doesn't overcommit. There's no way to push his blockhouse in age 2, and if I try to age he just right clicks me with musk coss strel. I tried a more eco-style age 2 timing with 5 vills and crates, and I also tried a more aggressive build with bb and shipping 4 kanya first. Either way he just easily holds.
I have problems with the exact same Russian player, he in particular is extremely aggressive and just burns all his economy and shipping to win at all costs. They recommended me to age fast with iros, plant my FB where he is planting it, and send 7 aennas + 5 tomas BB and burn his FB, I haven't found him in ranked yet to try that strat, but after playing so much Against him, the only way to beat him is to be as aggressive as he is.

The semi ff doesn't work, because he timming pushes with random Russian shit and destroys your TC and your buildings before you can gather enough army, he's not stupid, he's at 1600 for a reason.
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Re: how to beat russia as haud

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Post by Realife_Brahmin »

Having matched against this player a couple of times, I feel that the player is kind of op.
We need to nerf this player!
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Re: how to beat russia as haud

Post by Squamiger »

i think we need a united front against him, if we all play him at once there's no way he can win
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Re: how to beat russia as haud

Post by Hazza54321 »

surely just a 10 toma 4 kanyewest semi destroys
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Re: how to beat russia as haud

Post by rsy »

Idk might wanna ask the Ukrainians
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Re: how to beat russia as haud

Post by Squamiger »

Hazza54321 wrote:
28 Feb 2022, 20:02
surely just a 10 toma 4 kanyewest semi destroys
really feels like it doesn't. I'm not exactly sure what the timings are like with Russia, but I've tried builds like this several times and it feels like I get easily wiped in early colonial by 5 cossacks and batch of 10 strelets + 5 musks or something. I dont think he even ships 13 strels, but after this initial push he just keeps flooding in more units and massing. 5 cossacks seems to beat 4 kanya and strelets just beat everything else. I know you get the explorer crackshot but usually I can only get that off once before the explorer gets killed. And then I just get idled if I try to age and he burns down my age up warhut, or I get penned into my base if i commit to age 2, and outmassed.

I'm thinking the next thing I'll try is the fast age + early tp + unit shipment spam, or the 14v stagecoach build mitoe suggested
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Re: how to beat russia as haud

Post by fei123456 »

Edit: SemiFF doesn't work.
I guess his build is 700 food (or 700 gold?) - 3 unit shipments. He won't push into your TC at the first time, but after 6:00 your villagers will never be able to gather. 4 kanya 10 toma can never hold 30+ units.
Here's a new record with this. Note that Haud was an OP rush civ too in RE days.
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Re: how to beat russia as haud

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Post by comradecommissar »

Name your hero Zelenskyy.
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Re: how to beat russia as haud

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Post by LazarosVas »

Squamiger wrote:
28 Feb 2022, 01:48
Definitely struggling, maybe just bc i keep matching against a russia player who's 100 elo higher than me. He just masses and doesn't overcommit. There's no way to push his blockhouse in age 2, and if I try to age he just right clicks me with musk coss strel. I tried a more eco-style age 2 timing with 5 vills and crates, and I also tried a more aggressive build with bb and shipping 4 kanya first. Either way he just easily holds.
I have played Haude vs his Russia like 50 times in the ladder, my record against that is like 8-42. Dude just owns me every single time.. He is a very good Russian player tbh.. whenever I play against other Russian players I dont struggle as much as vs him.

As for advice I dont think taking mine will be productive as I have lost so many games vs him but the few times I won I

1.Fast aged and destroyed his forward base (But that was because he thought I would stay in base as I mostly do)
2.A time when I saw him tp first age I just easily massed and timing rushed in in 6 min and 10 with toma + kanya, his army was non existent because of his slow age up.
3.Managed to pull a farm 2:51 fast age up and had Kanyas + 5 tomas in 4 min and 10 in his base.
4.Basically outmicro'ed in base with wh attack and raiding simultaneously
5.I scout he doesnt forward base and he goes naked ff so I ff as well and well Haude ff > Russian ff

Some of my win examples here, most of the time whenever he goes forward is super hard to contain him, he doesnt over commit he always raids and just starves you to death, even whenever I took massively better fights he was able to mass back due to his better eco.. I dont know how he does it but whenever I check his resources after the game he always has like 11000 res gathered in 10 mins of gametime which for Russia is very very good.
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Re: how to beat russia as haud

Post by Joe »

fei123456 wrote:
01 Mar 2022, 08:50
Edit: SemiFF doesn't work.
I guess his build is 700 food (or 700 gold?) - 3 unit shipments. He won't push into your TC at the first time, but after 6:00 your villagers will never be able to gather. 4 kanya 10 toma can never hold 30+ units.
Here's a new record with this. Note that Haud was an OP rush civ too in RE days.
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Re: how to beat russia as haud

Post by Squamiger »

I feel like its the same problem for haud against India as well. India and Russia both just feel like no-win matchups. You can't win in age 2 because their units are just stronger for most of the early game, they have a defensive fort/bh in base or on the map that you can't push, and their eco quickly outscales you by the time you've sent enough unit upgrades to make your units comparable / better. You can't go age 3 easily because they also have a really strong rush that will damage you too much and idle you
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Re: how to beat russia as haud

Post by Joe »

Squamiger wrote:
05 Mar 2022, 21:05
I feel like its the same problem for haud against India as well. India and Russia both just feel like no-win matchups. You can't win in age 2 because their units are just stronger for most of the early game, they have a defensive fort/bh in base or on the map that you can't push, and their eco quickly outscales you by the time you've sent enough unit upgrades to make your units comparable / better. You can't go age 3 easily because they also have a really strong rush that will damage you too much and idle you
i disagree on india mu, that should be really good for haude

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