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Normally a Squamiger or Princess of Pancake post domain, but really interested to know how this matchup is played on either side. How does one go about it, what are your win conditions, who is more favoured, etc. Couldn't find this specific matchup, eager to know how better players than I would play this. Thank you!

They say Brit meer is a musketeer fest

Should be India favoured after spain falcs are gone it's like vs brits but india scales in age 3

Kanoo wrote: ↑

04 Aug 2022, 16:34

Normally a Squamiger or Princess of Pancake post domain, but really interested to know how this matchup is played on either side. How does one go about it, what are your win conditions, who is more favoured, etc. Couldn't find this specific matchup, eager to know how better players than I would play this. Thank you!

I personally think this is Spain favoured due to the fact that India being weak against strong early age 3 civilizations.
I would build the Agra in base and scout my opponent to see if he's building his outpost in his base or forward. (Most of the players will build in base since they know they can't hold that outpost against India.)
If he's building forward outpost ship 5 Sepoy first and macro to train 5 Sepoy right after you aged and kill outpost with 12 Sepoy.
If he's building in base I would start to get market upgrades in transition to age 2.
After aging 2 I would ship 700w then 300 export.
Train sepoys only while getting upgrades and getting 3 hussar from Ottoman consulate and wait for your opponent to commit under your base try to use all of your mms and consulate mm 4 sowar + 3 hussar and sepoys at the same time. It's important to build your Agra close to your TC. Don't forget to shot falcs with Agra fire and TC if he's in range.
Good luck and have fun. ^^

I think the MU still plays out like it used to be on EP, except maybe for some new Spain strat in the sort of semi FF, using the 8xbow to get away with the age up, and maybe using the xbows and their ups in some cases (like if India goes aggro and you have to make some xbows in age2 to hold before deciding to age).
I guess the 8xbow age up alone is enough to hold India rushes so maybe just planning an eco FF is the best option regardless. The problem with the FF is that it is passive and allows India to do w/e, while also putting yourself on the backfoot (e.g India sieges the TP with only couple units and then FF). Age3 vs age3 should be better for India if Spain does't use its tempo to do something (do some damage or cut corners and squeeze more eco).
Industrial strats shouldn't work because both a naked or semi FI should get right clicked successfully by India (either in age2 or in age3 with the 2 siege eles).

In case of classic strats, the agrro FF should still lose to just mass sepoy and also the eco FFs gives the option to India to either do a mass sepoy timing or just age up safely.
As India I found the most easy and effective way to play against Spain to just do karni in base and mass sepoy as default (assuming some sort of active FF from Spain). The card order vs the aggro FF is 700w 300exp 5 sepoy (300exp is for Brit cons and 6redcoats). Just one rax spam and eventually two, stable not needed vs Spain trash FF, only needed when they start adding more skirms.
Because of DE maps and crates you easily age sub 4.30 with India with good macro (4v on wonder), so it doesn't feel like chasing Spain. I go Karni mata and not Agra because I want the extra eco in case Spain goes for an eco FF (which I think should be meta at this point) without committing for no reason in India's base or in the open map. In that case the plan is to either do a solid timing push yourself in age2 or to age up and gradually switch to a gurka based army to play the III vs III game.
Again age2 Spain just adapt and make gurkha or whatever you need. India age2 is superior in the long run, so only have to be careful to not get outplayed by a rush or huss semi or stuff like that that should do no real damage.

Basically the MU should be India favoured if the India player knows what to do. Trying to punish Spain with a classic rush isn't going to work and also just FFing against an aggressive Spain FF will probably get busted. So just start eco with Karni and default to holding a Spain aggro FF in age2. If Spain does something different just adapt and in the long run India just outscales.

the big question is how to play this match playing with spain considering how powerfull indians are.
Indian is everything spain fear : a mousket civ / got couter falcs card at age 3 / map control/can mousket rush age 2 very early / powerfull semi FF or fast straight FF/insane units etcs.. etc.. indian can do everything and is not very ressources dependant.

draztik wrote: ↑

04 Aug 2022, 21:55

powerfull semi FF or fast straight FF

?????

kevinitalien wrote: ↑

04 Aug 2022, 21:59

draztik wrote: ↑

04 Aug 2022, 21:55

powerfull semi FF or fast straight FF

?????

!!!!!

India doesn't exactly have a "strong" FF. The closest to a straight FF is Taj Mahal with 700g as first card (need all that gold because you have to chop for vills all the time). And it is still a bit slow and not very powerful.
This is why India should try to beat the FF in age2 and only age if Spain doesn't seem to be aggro.

As Spain, you would like to squeeze some extra eco to compete with India natural better scaling (I assume that at high level Spain aggro FF momentum isn't enough to crack India). So you'd like to have stagecoach (maybe with ATP) or on water map a fish boom (idk how water vs water plays out in this MU actually). Alternatively just standard FF and send eco cards (either spanish gold or 1k wood first) or, probably better, some sort of greedy semi FF with possibly stagecoach.

An interesting build: Go age II with Karni Mata or Taj Mahah, and go fortress with Agra Fort.

In DE if you age up with Agra, you get 5 gurkhas and the Agra is auto-upgraded, which has 37.5 aoe damage (do mass damage to pikemen/rods) and can train elephants immediately. You don't need stable/barrack at all, and can go full howdah to destroy Spain.

For Piroshiki-style Spain, Taj Mahal into Agra Fort is an instant kill. Using the stop-war ability, TC and Agra can do huge damage to his pikemen troops in 15 seconds. For standard Spain, Karni Mata semiFF is available too.

Thank you all for your valuable insights! Very much appreciated.
I have made an edit to the OP to now include a poll as well since opinion seems to be divided on who is favoured.

cons rush into finding the 15 vills spain snuck to the edge of the map works okay

Kanoo wrote: ↑

05 Aug 2022, 04:07

Thank you all for your valuable insights! Very much appreciated.
I have made an edit to the OP to now include a poll as well since opinion seems to be divided on who is favoured.

Well I voted but accidentally clicked Spain and can't take it back soooo.....
Garja's explanation is the most realistic explanation of the MU imo, if you play the MU a lot (i have)you will indeed see he is right.

Stepheneaux wrote: ↑

05 Aug 2022, 12:12

Well I voted but accidentally clicked Spain and can't take it back soooo.....
Garja's explanation is the most realistic explanation of the MU imo, if you play the MU a lot (i have)you will indeed see he is right.

I've enabled re-voting, try again. It seems pretty even (both sides have a chance imo).