Forts in Deck, yay or nay?

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Germany KaanHoca
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Forts in Deck, yay or nay?

Post by KaanHoca »

I personally don't like forts, they build slow don't really give an economic or millitary advantage and I often kill forts of enemy, which also could happen to me if I would play it, but by looks into many decks, or some players which really seem to love the fort, I want to ask about the fort, what is the real advantage it gives to except it being a big placeholder in your base and giving 220XP after being built, also are their more uses then putting it in the base?

also is it true that the fort is usually getting sent after 1k coin in an FI strat, instead of 1k wood so to say? :P
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Re: Forts in Deck, yay or nay?

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Post by callentournies »

situational, innit. map, matchup, game. the best players will tell you no, it's just bad; they mean the probability of it being better than another card that takes its place over many games is much, much lower. the best players are boring and anyways you're not the best players and neither am I, aiz is kind of, and he has forts in decks, at least one in one of them.

a fort cant be pushed in age 2 or 3 if it's being defended, not even with 2 falc.

There are two forts: 1) the in-base fort and 2) the mid map fort

The in base fort is flaccid. It does not control any map, even more, it resigns itself against expansion and seductive advances. You do not have to kill it anytime soon in your path to a win condition. This fort is reserved for revolters and musk cannon crutches and osteoporosis. It can be used to force a late game where aoe3 balance, civ choice, and deck choice can decide the game instead of gameplay.

The mid map fort is scary. Once up (if up), your opponent either 1) plays around it, 2) builds petards, or 3) goes IV. All of these 1) buy time, some of them can 2) split enemy up. If buying time is good and if your opponent doing those things mentioned is bad, then the fort is good. It's an underrated if, in if up; build time is what everyone gets in a wad about.

I used to think forts were even good while they were being built. Jerimuno proved me wrong. We call this trauma. Always be active on the map to spot fort foundations.

Good forts can win games, because they do what nothing else does. Bad forts can lose games because it can be a loss of tempo. More than other shipments, it's a matter of hindsight if it was "worth it" or not. That makes them hard. They can be killed easily in the minute it takes to build, when people are shipping units and aggroing, that makes them risky. Hard and risky = rare. But a fort can't be pushed if it's being defended in age 2 or age 3. Repeat after me. A fort can't be...
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Rainbow Land callentournies
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Re: Forts in Deck, yay or nay?

Post by callentournies »

see an older discussion I prompted, input by kaiserklein, lordraphael, mitoe, POTD, and the like: viewtopic.php?t=20477
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Latvia harcha
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Re: Forts in Deck, yay or nay?

Post by harcha »

i think points made in some other thread about the meta becoming more turtle and artillery focused (as opposed to map control and cavalry based) has helped making forts more viable as of recent times
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Netherlands Goodspeed
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Re: Forts in Deck, yay or nay?

Post by Goodspeed »

Mid-map forts were always underrated though admittedly rarely viable because other cards were usually better. I think one problem with forts was that players were bad at placement and timing. Understandably so because it's very hard to get right. You need to predict or scout enemy army movement, and you need to time it during your own military power-spikes or during an enemy "power-trough" or both. For example sometimes you had a power-spike in a match up and it's not big enough to go across the map and attack, but is barely good enough to place a mid-map fort. Identifying these windows requires very good scouting and understanding of the match up.

In the right conditions and if both placement and timing were impeccable, your opponent wouldn't know about it until it's too late and it could be a huge swing in games with resource scarcity.

(Not sure how relevant this is now)
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Re: Forts in Deck, yay or nay?

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Post by LionHeart »

9k hp, can be used to dominate map control, can fill in as a rax/stable/foundry....yeah, its a good card alright!
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Re: Forts in Deck, yay or nay?

Post by Snuden »

I have it in some decks.
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Re: Forts in Deck, yay or nay?

Post by draztik »

I put sometimes fort in my deck in coz it is sexy but almost never manage to make it usefull.

In team, I have always the fort, I put it in base, near factory or mills, not sure about how usefull it is. ON some maps, fights occurs in some sort of corridors or one specific place (or because you wall a lot), it can be usefull to place it near maybe if you can boom like a pig behind..
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Italy Garja
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Re: Forts in Deck, yay or nay?

Post by Garja »

Goodspeed wrote: ↑
28 Dec 2022, 09:31
... it could be a huge swing in games with resource scarcity.

(Not sure how relevant this is now)
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Re: Forts in Deck, yay or nay?

Post by Hazza54321 »

Good with port otherwise no
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Re: Forts in Deck, yay or nay?

Post by rukisrecord »

If you can win with a fort, you can usually win with other cards
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Re: Forts in Deck, yay or nay?

Post by andrewgs »

callentournies wrote: ↑
27 Dec 2022, 08:19
There are two forts: 1) the in-base fort and 2) the mid map fort
There is a third fort. The BM fort. A fort placed where your opponents tc once stood.
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Re: Forts in Deck, yay or nay?

Post by Aizamk »

any self respecting nilla scrub will tell you that forts are great
oranges.
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Italy Don Nameless
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Re: Forts in Deck, yay or nay?

Post by Don Nameless »

Because vanilla is vanilla and nothing is beyond vanilla
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Re: Forts in Deck, yay or nay?

Post by Mitoe »

Hazza54321 wrote: ↑
31 Dec 2022, 00:37
Good with port otherwise no
BlackStar used to use it with Dutch occasionally, but personally I don't feel they need it - even when going FI.

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