Best way against Otto/Spain FI?

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China fei123456
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Best way against Otto/Spain FI?

Post by fei123456 »

Imagine you're playing French against these guys. He age up with 2-3 TC in base, wall/fort/2 cannons and go industrial. Which is the most efficient build to break this?

Colonial push: can avoid the fort wagon, but you'll face 2 TC and 12 minutemen, and possible spahi/cannon. If you failed to destroy him, the game just ends.
Musket and 2 cannons: just don't work.
Musket and 4-5 cannons: he'll likely have a fort in his base. It takes some time to destroy this, and the culverin comes out.
Musket and petards: too risky. imagine you destroyed the fort and a TC (needs at least 10 petards, 1000 wood lol), but he may age up with another TC and it's over.
Advanced artillery: is it the meta of AOE3 now? This shipment just unlock mortar and doesn't send you anything at all, which is a bit awkward.
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Re: Best way against Otto/Spain FI?

Post by Garja »

Best way to counter any strat is just to mirror it and do something marginally better. That of course if your civ is as good as doing that strat.
I think French is more or less on par with Spain when it comes to FI. Idk about otto but I don't see French being that worse. Also standard semi FF into greedy approach is probably ok too but ye you're going to fight III vs IV so it can be risky.
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Re: Best way against Otto/Spain FI?

Post by fei123456 »

Garja wrote:
08 Mar 2023, 18:10
Best way to counter any strat is just to mirror it and do something marginally better. That of course if your civ is as good as doing that strat.
I think French is more or less on par with Spain when it comes to FI. Idk about otto but I don't see French being that worse. Also standard semi FF into greedy approach is probably ok too but ye you're going to fight III vs IV so it can be risky.
No way can French beat industrial Mexican soldado at 11:00.
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Re: Best way against Otto/Spain FI?

Post by Garja »

I'm pretty sure the soldado FI is nothing special.
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Re: Best way against Otto/Spain FI?

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Post by Hazza54321 »

Best way to beat that is pressure slightly whilst going quite economically yourself ( i mean tcs and tps) whilst he wastes shipments on a fort and towers.
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Re: Best way against Otto/Spain FI?

Post by Don Nameless »

fei123456 wrote:
08 Mar 2023, 18:27
Garja wrote:
08 Mar 2023, 18:10
Best way to counter any strat is just to mirror it and do something marginally better. That of course if your civ is as good as doing that strat.
I think French is more or less on par with Spain when it comes to FI. Idk about otto but I don't see French being that worse. Also standard semi FF into greedy approach is probably ok too but ye you're going to fight III vs IV so it can be risky.
No way can French beat industrial Mexican soldado at 11:00.
Cannons and cannons, send heavy cannons and put factories to make heavy cannons, put pressure on him constantly and when he tries to hunt them kill as many as possible with skirmishers, it would be good to use the arsenal to take 1 more multiplier for skirms, if he allows you to destroy the 2 haciendas (if spain with hacienda) or as soon as 3 go, keep his base under control and try to time the expedition so as to try to take them with horses or make firecrackers and destroy them I know it's expensive but at least you took them off back for the whole game (if spain with hacienda), if you mean mexican soldados then the best thing is cannons and upgrade skirms a lot.
I hope I was helpful
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Re: Best way against Otto/Spain FI?

Post by KaanHoca »

Hazza54321 wrote:
08 Mar 2023, 19:59
Best way to beat that is pressure slightly whilst going quite economically yourself ( i mean tcs and tps) whilst he wastes shipments on a fort and towers.
I get the quite economically yourself and totally agree, but what is an good way to pressure slightly of an fort tower,
when I'd have an fort and 3 tc I don't really care about 5 huss 10musk tbh, or is it just for the mindgames- so enemy thinks he should stay in base? :hmm:
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Re: Best way against Otto/Spain FI?

Post by LionHeart »

Just semi ff, every turtle style build is pretty weak vs cav, slows them down and/or forces them to make a response such as make pikes. Then turn it into heavy siege early age 3 pressure. And vs the Hacienda BO, destroy the haciendas and they can't rebuild them.
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Re: Best way against Otto/Spain FI?

Post by ShinkuroYukinari »

Bring out the classic Pike Xbow and deny them an ageup.
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Re: Best way against Otto/Spain FI?

Post by Miyawaki Sakura »

ShinkuroYukinari wrote:
09 Mar 2023, 07:42
Bring out the classic Pike Xbow and deny them an ageup.
As far as I remember, the 2rax pike/bow lose to three towers.

Enemy use hero to snare pikes.
When pikes arive enemy base 3 towers already located.
He can also send CM.
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Re: Best way against Otto/Spain FI?

Post by ShinkuroYukinari »

France is a consistent and easy way of getting the pike xbow rush going, and can use the pikes to deny TPs, which Ottos especially depend on as a lifeline. This combined with 3 Huss ship and consistent pressure can do wonders to cripple the FI-er.

Plus, this is dependent on catching the FB and the France player can split up the formation to minimize the snare.
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Re: Best way against Otto/Spain FI?

Post by fei123456 »

A record to show how Spain reach industrial before 11:00, with 10+ infantry and 2 cannons.
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[SP] Cooper.[SP] vs 爱国主播东雪莲[FR] - afArabia.age3yrec
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Re: Best way against Otto/Spain FI?

Post by Garja »

French can do exactly the same with a 10 musk semi.
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Re: Best way against Otto/Spain FI?

Post by Miyawaki Sakura »

I've spammed the Hasienda build a few times and I've seen how I can actually counter it, but this is impossible for some countries.

Normal skirms+goons+culvs are defeated by the Ura charge.

China and India can easily counter Hacienda Fi, but in this case Spain can simply play on normal FF
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Re: Best way against Otto/Spain FI?

Post by callentournies »

china has the best response to these right now. what I do is the mini opening (tea export, fr cons and food crates to age), and age with summer palace for an ultra fast age III age up time (700c, 700w). Age with 8 skirm (optional). Then gather 800f in transition to III for 12 changdao and 2 FA (eat all your livestock). Push, follow up with 7 hand mortars and 10 changdoa if needed. The 500w from fr cons comes just in time for pop space and market ups. You will delete his base before he knows what's good.

Alternatively is the riskier boom boom GFA petard strat. My adaptation is to mitoe ff with healing palace (that means no vills on wonder to age II, you skip 700c so save a shipment. You age 15 seconds later, but with an extra card. With good treasures it CAN be nearly the same timing petard and changdao FA push (8:45). Card order is tea export, GFA, 300e. Chop for 3 villages in transition to III. Go III with summer palace, use food crates for 12 changdao and 2 FA. Put cons on export ratio during transition to III and when gathering food crates. Research petards twice to a forward side village. Push with changdao or earlier with transendence ability to preserve petard health. Delete his base and follow up.
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Re: Best way against Otto/Spain FI?

Post by look »

honestly, u didn't even need to write anything about china.
there are several good builds for china, the problem here is for some civs like frank etc.
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