Replay/VOD of Dutch Vs Lakota?

[dutchdude117]

Hi I keep seeing people say that Dutch is very strong vs Lakota, and I believe them. But every time I play against a decent Lakota player, I manage to survive the early game, and when I try to leave my base, everything goes wrong.

So I am looking for VODs, recordings, and advice that will help me identify win conditions and unit compositions to beat Lakota.

[Mitoe]

I've played this matchup a lot, and it is really not an easy matchup. Dutch can succeed but you really have to cope with the fact that you're going to be stuck in your base for a long time. A lot of the time I found myself needing to expand outside of my base with walls else my army just gets destroyed.

That being said I do think Dutch is one of the better civs vs Lakota, but it's not exactly a fun experience. Unfortunately I don't have any recs.

Basic advice I can give you is to skirm pike semi and don't be afraid to use walls. They make it much easier to compensate for the fact that you don't have a large ruyter mass early on.

[dutchdude117]

I've played this matchup a lot, and it is really not an easy matchup. Dutch can succeed but you really have to cope with the fact that you're going to be stuck in your base for a long time. A lot of the time I found myself needing to expand outside of my base with walls else my army just gets destroyed.

That being said I do think Dutch is one of the better civs vs Lakota, but it's not exactly a fun experience. Unfortunately I don't have any recs.

Basic advice I can give you is to skirm pike semi and don't be afraid to use walls. They make it much easier to compensate for the fact that you don't have a large ruyter mass early on.

Would you recommend going industrial and getting factories out if the lakota does not put out any pressure (usually they literally just wait for you to try to push out and then overwelm your army)

[dutchdude117]

I've played this matchup a lot, and it is really not an easy matchup. Dutch can succeed but you really have to cope with the fact that you're going to be stuck in your base for a long time. A lot of the time I found myself needing to expand outside of my base with walls else my army just gets destroyed.

That being said I do think Dutch is one of the better civs vs Lakota, but it's not exactly a fun experience. Unfortunately I don't have any recs.

Basic advice I can give you is to skirm pike semi and don't be afraid to use walls. They make it much easier to compensate for the fact that you don't have a large ruyter mass early on.

What is Lakota goes for stage coach?

[Kawapasaka]

I found one rec vs Lukas but it's from the last patch so no way to watch it, meh. Anyway I agree with everything Mitoe says and in regards to stage I think it's probably best to respond to it with maximum greed of your own. If you scout multiple TPs early you might be able to go naked 5 banks (700w, BW) and then 8pikes/3huss with MM if you need to hold pressure, or just age if not pressured heavily and stable/rax from 600w. Maybe you still have to make units in age 2 to semi but I don't think contesting their forward warhut (and by extension, TPs) at any stage of age 2 is feasible so generally just try to 5 bank yourself then age. Eco-wise it should be competitive with the nerfed stagecoach on most maps. Hopefully you can get to age 3 earlier and go straight to sieging TPs or run a bit with Ruyters to disrupt their eco.

[Mitoe]

I've played this matchup a lot, and it is really not an easy matchup. Dutch can succeed but you really have to cope with the fact that you're going to be stuck in your base for a long time. A lot of the time I found myself needing to expand outside of my base with walls else my army just gets destroyed.

That being said I do think Dutch is one of the better civs vs Lakota, but it's not exactly a fun experience. Unfortunately I don't have any recs.

Basic advice I can give you is to skirm pike semi and don't be afraid to use walls. They make it much easier to compensate for the fact that you don't have a large ruyter mass early on.

Would you recommend going industrial and getting factories out if the lakota does not put out any pressure (usually they literally just wait for you to try to push out and then overwelm your army)

It might be an option, but it's hard to say. It depends a lot on how many resources you have in base. I'm not really sure a timing is holdable, but with the 30 musketeers from the church card maybe it is. You would probably need to consider CM if you went for this as well. I've never really tried FI vs Lakota as Dutch myself.


Stagecoach stuff is hard because it doesn't really slow them down. If you make good use the envoy you might be able to identify if they are aging or staying age 2, and might be able to push out and kill a TP while he is aging. Generally this seems like it would be pretty hard to punish--maybe if they were going this greedy then that would you be your opportunity to go industrial? Perhaps it would be best to just try to push in early Fortress and siege the TPs.

Training some envoys in this matchup is actually a good idea by the way. When you want to leave your base, training some envoys before hand and spreading them around the map where you want to go with your army can prevent you from getting caught out of position or avoid some sneaky raid/base trade stuff.

[Mr_Bramboy]

I think the consensus that Dutch does fine against Lakota stems from the RE days when any other civ struggled against bow riders while Dutch managed to hang on somewhat with skirmishers. On the current DE patch, it's not a walk in the park at all.