If you need any more proof that port + peru needs to be nerfed

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United States of America fitzbro
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If you need any more proof that port + peru needs to be nerfed

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Post by fitzbro »

NSFW
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[SP] FitzBro[SI] vs TaCtICaL GoRiLLa[PT] - Fertile Crescent.age3yrec
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Fertile Crescent
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Re: If you need any more proof that port + peru needs to be nerfed

Post by DamagedBananaBread »

fitzbro wrote:NSFW
Completely agree...I've complained about it on the forums two different times
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Re: If you need any more proof that port + peru needs to be nerfed

Post by Peachrocks »

fitzbro wrote:NSFW
Haven’t watched but I will. I like revolts (not the vill transforming all in part but some of the other stuff) but even I want this nerfed.
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Re: If you need any more proof that port + peru needs to be nerfed

Post by callentournies »

this just looks like the new aoe3 to me
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Re: If you need any more proof that port + peru needs to be nerfed

Post by fitzbro »

Warships in the water that Lakota can't counter. Rebuilding TCs for more CM pops. Train in age 2. Unkillable grenadiers. Enjoy!
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Re: If you need any more proof that port + peru needs to be nerfed

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Post by knusch »

looked like an easy win for sioux
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Re: If you need any more proof that port + peru needs to be nerfed

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Post by Miyawaki Sakura »

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Re: If you need any more proof that port + peru needs to be nerfed

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Post by deleted_user »

Miyawaki Sakura wrote:The Peru revolt on land is not a op.
It is possible to counter.
I've never actually lost against orukitan revolt when I used the right build.
I guess you are new to here. You need to ask nerf to anything that beats your usual play, that's how things work :flowers:
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Re: If you need any more proof that port + peru needs to be nerfed

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Post by Astaroth »

This^^

Step 1: do your standard build which works 70-90 % of the time. Don't scout or adapt.
Step 2: lose to a specific build by the opponent.
Step 3: develop a counter build and adapt

Step 3: ask for the opponent's build to be nerfed. You can't be expected to adapt your standard play after all.
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Re: If you need any more proof that port + peru needs to be nerfed

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Post by Mr_Bramboy »

It's partly due to the toxic streamers that we have nowadays. Try to find a stream where the streamer scouts their opponent's strategy/base. You won't find one and this is teaching bad habits to the viewers.
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Re: If you need any more proof that port + peru needs to be nerfed

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Post by Kawapasaka »

Astaroth wrote:This^^

Step 1: do your standard build which works 70-90 % of the time. Don't scout or adapt.
Step 2: lose to a specific build by the opponent.
Step 3: develop a counter build and adapt

Step 3: ask for the opponent's build to be nerfed. You can't be expected to adapt your standard play after all.
So has a single balance issue ever even existed? I'd at least give fitz the courtesy of watching the game before accusing him of sucking at scouting and adapting.
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Re: If you need any more proof that port + peru needs to be nerfed

Post by Astaroth »

Mr_Bramboy wrote:It's partly due to the toxic streamers that we have nowadays. Try to find a stream where the streamer scouts their opponent's strategy/base. You won't find one and this is teaching bad habits to the viewers.
I'm not sure if you are joking, but this is actually what I've observed as well. Even in tournaments, most pro players tend to use their explorer almost exclusively to hunt treasures, build TPs and snare and very rarely to scout their opponent's base (at least not in time to scout any potential strategy).
Kawapasaka wrote:
Astaroth wrote:This^^

Step 1: do your standard build which works 70-90 % of the time. Don't scout or adapt.
Step 2: lose to a specific build by the opponent.
Step 3: develop a counter build and adapt

Step 3: ask for the opponent's build to be nerfed. You can't be expected to adapt your standard play after all.
So has a single balance issue ever even existed? I'd at least give fitz the courtesy of watching the game before accusing him of sucking at scouting and adapting.
Sure balance issues exist, but the fact that Peru revolt AFAIK hasn't been used successfully in tournaments (or maybe 1-2 times, Idk) indicates it is not that strong. Especially considering that lots of players in tourneys (at least amateur division) do not shy away from potentially broken or at least strong strats (e.g. Don or Drongo, no offense).
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Re: If you need any more proof that port + peru needs to be nerfed

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Post by Mr_Bramboy »

Astaroth wrote:
Mr_Bramboy wrote:It's partly due to the toxic streamers that we have nowadays. Try to find a stream where the streamer scouts their opponent's strategy/base. You won't find one and this is teaching bad habits to the viewers.
I'm not sure if you are joking, but this is actually what I've observed as well. Even in tournaments, most pro players tend to use their explorer almost exclusively to hunt treasures, build TPs and snare and very rarely to scout their opponent's base (at least not in time to scout any potential strategy).
I'm not joking. Back in my day if you didn't scout you would get tower FF'd or jan abus'd, both of which you'd need a specific response to. Nowadays lazy players just sit on their asses making fishing boats completely neglecting the other side of the map.
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Re: If you need any more proof that port + peru needs to be nerfed

Post by Kawapasaka »

Astaroth wrote:
Mr_Bramboy wrote:It's partly due to the toxic streamers that we have nowadays. Try to find a stream where the streamer scouts their opponent's strategy/base. You won't find one and this is teaching bad habits to the viewers.
I'm not sure if you are joking, but this is actually what I've observed as well. Even in tournaments, most pro players tend to use their explorer almost exclusively to hunt treasures, build TPs and snare and very rarely to scout their opponent's base (at least not in time to scout any potential strategy).
Kawapasaka wrote:
Astaroth wrote:This^^

Step 1: do your standard build which works 70-90 % of the time. Don't scout or adapt.
Step 2: lose to a specific build by the opponent.
Step 3: develop a counter build and adapt

Step 3: ask for the opponent's build to be nerfed. You can't be expected to adapt your standard play after all.
So has a single balance issue ever even existed? I'd at least give fitz the courtesy of watching the game before accusing him of sucking at scouting and adapting.
Sure balance issues exist, but the fact that Peru revolt AFAIK hasn't been used successfully in tournaments (or maybe 1-2 times, Idk) indicates it is not that strong. Especially considering that lots of players in tourneys (at least amateur division) do not shy away from potentially broken or at least strong strats (e.g. Don or Drongo, no offense).
I don't think that's a perfect metric and in any case a more niche mechanic can still be overpowered. Sacrificing everything to rush straight to IV and revolt might be easy to adapt to and counter, but that doesn't mean the power-spike provided by the revolt isn't still overpowered when used in a longer even game that's played out to the industrial stage.
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Re: If you need any more proof that port + peru needs to be nerfed

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Post by Aizamk »

There's a several different reasons that can explain the lack of scouting at higher levels
1) You know your opponent and can tell what they'll do just by looking at the map, civ selections, and deck
2) Matchup is in your favour so even if something weird happens you know you can adapt fairly easily
3) There are more non-minimap aspects to scout such as score jumps, TPs on scoreboard, deck, and what your opponent is scouting from you
4) It doesn't matter what your opponent does because you are doing TP skirm goon semi ff
5) It doesn't matter what your opponent does because you are doing a strat involving walls/water/tm which plays the same regardless
6) It doesn't matter what your opponent does because you set your mind on doing this strat and will carry it out no matter what because someone donated
7) You are planning to age up with hot air balloon to imperial anyway so why bother
8) Forgot to check stove
oranges.
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Re: If you need any more proof that port + peru needs to be nerfed

Post by Mr_Bramboy »

Aizamk wrote:4) It doesn't matter what your opponent does because you are doing TP skirm goon semi ff
5) It doesn't matter what your opponent does because you are doing a strat involving walls/water/tm which plays the same regardless
This is the mark of a bad RTS game and it should not be applauded. At least the skirm goon semi ff arguably loses to the peru revolt and therefore you will need to adapt, but in the case of water play it is interesting to see how no scouting is necessary, which in my opinion is contrary to basic RTS principles.
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Re: If you need any more proof that port + peru needs to be nerfed

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Post by callentournies »

it's not crazy mental gymnastics to observe that a unit which hard counters all inf, cav, buildings, and trades even with artillery (and they get to send infinite imperial culverin-units to a mobile stat-boosting daimyo with iro crackshot ability, which are ez to mass due to xp from gren sieging) is a lil bustyyyy

Not scouting the Peru Revolt is not the issue. It's not like there's one Peru Revolt build, it's just an incredibly strong option in any port player's pocket. I'm surprised we're not even seeing a couple of culv variations to even better counter the only response to it (artillery). There was this idea on Legacy that revolts are one-time power spikes with absolutely no or minimal follow up. Since the premier peru revolt civ is port, since they are the premier water/stagecoach/turtle civ (lets you get factories out), the revolt can actually have a pretty nice batch training follow up.

prescient, again: viewtopic.php?t=22321#p517603

viewtopic.php?f=982&t=22396&p=521700&hi ... lt#p521700
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Re: If you need any more proof that port + peru needs to be nerfed

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Post by Hazza54321 »

Well theres no doubt the unit breaks the counter system and in that sense it needs a nerf.
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Re: If you need any more proof that port + peru needs to be nerfed

Post by Hawk_Girl »

Miyawaki Sakura wrote:The Peru revolt on land is not a op.
It is possible to counter.
I've never actually lost against orukitan revolt when I used the right build.
How do you counter it then?
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Re: If you need any more proof that port + peru needs to be nerfed

Post by princeofcarthage »

Mr_Bramboy wrote:
Aizamk wrote:4) It doesn't matter what your opponent does because you are doing TP skirm goon semi ff
5) It doesn't matter what your opponent does because you are doing a strat involving walls/water/tm which plays the same regardless
This is the mark of a bad RTS game and it should not be applauded. At least the skirm goon semi ff arguably loses to the peru revolt and therefore you will need to adapt, but in the case of water play it is interesting to see how no scouting is necessary, which in my opinion is contrary to basic RTS principles.
It's called turtling. When you are playing defensive it is easier to ignore opponents strategy cuz you simply have to defend whatever they throw at you till you out boom them.
Fine line to something great is a strange change.
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Re: If you need any more proof that port + peru needs to be nerfed

Post by Miyawaki Sakura »

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Re: If you need any more proof that port + peru needs to be nerfed

Post by harcha »

Either you have walls and cannons, or you need to get a really good engage with skirm hus.
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Re: If you need any more proof that port + peru needs to be nerfed

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Post by Mr_Bramboy »

princeofcarthage wrote:
Mr_Bramboy wrote:
Aizamk wrote:4) It doesn't matter what your opponent does because you are doing TP skirm goon semi ff
5) It doesn't matter what your opponent does because you are doing a strat involving walls/water/tm which plays the same regardless
This is the mark of a bad RTS game and it should not be applauded. At least the skirm goon semi ff arguably loses to the peru revolt and therefore you will need to adapt, but in the case of water play it is interesting to see how no scouting is necessary, which in my opinion is contrary to basic RTS principles.
It's called turtling. When you are playing defensive it is easier to ignore opponents strategy cuz you simply have to defend whatever they throw at you till you out boom them.
Obviously with a turtle you will still need to adapt to what your opponent is doing. E.g. you won't be spamming walls in favor of getting economic upgrades if your opponent is not creating units and you won't train artillery if your opponent is only training dragoons.

But why am I even explaining this to an omniscient PR15?
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Re: If you need any more proof that port + peru needs to be nerfed

Post by princeofcarthage »

First of all calling me pr 15 or pr 5 does not validate you. If you are looking for validation go to your local therapist. Next after you have done that go to a school and learn to read.

I said its "easier". Taking your ex. If you are going water like kynesie you will wall 100% of the time regardless of opponent making unit or not. The benefit of walling is such that you can still adapt after you see enemy units or he starts attacking you. You need to comparatively adapt "less" which makes it "easier" to ignore larger part of opponent's strategy.
Fine line to something great is a strange change.
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Re: If you need any more proof that port + peru needs to be nerfed

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Post by Kaiserklein »

Just another great addition by DE, if you complain about it you're a dumb skirm goon bot
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