How to deny Map control as porto vs russia?

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Germany AndiAOE
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How to deny Map control as porto vs russia?

Post by AndiAOE »

I honestly dont know how to play vs russia as porto on land maps. It seems like there is almost no win condition for me, all my units are less cost efficient, my eco is equal for the most part, i dont have power shipments in age 2 (like 5 cosack) which secure early game. I dont think there is a way for me to deny the first blockhouse going up and i also dont think i can ever push the blockhouse for the beforementioned reasons. Which leaves me to compete for the sides and to raid?
The only saving grace is super late game, where port on paper is more powerful. But ye you will never reach it, where you are on a somewhat equal position
I know i lost this particular game once i lost my 10 huss vs 12 cossack or something only killing 2. should i try to outmass cav or what is the grand plan here?
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Dakota
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Pakistan comradecommissar
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Re: How to deny Map control as porto vs russia?

Post by comradecommissar »

If I ended up in this matchup on this map I would just put my second TC near my first, wall up on angles from the cliff, ship town militia and then try to play out from there by aging and adding more TCs to the other side of the cliff. But Id probably still lose.
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Re: How to deny Map control as porto vs russia?

Post by louis293 »

comradecommissar wrote: ā†‘
16 Feb 2022, 15:52
If I ended up in this matchup on this map I would just put my second TC near my first, wall up on angles from the cliff, ship town militia and then try to play out from there by aging and adding more TCs to the other side of the cliff. But Id probably still lose.
that doesn't work imo because you will give a nice tp line for free for russia so on this map you have to go atp even in this mu i think, but the question is more on a general std land map i assume and i have the same feeling as Andi, i feel as port you never really have a window to push a double BH. Russia can age close after port with similar eco and even if russia is slow early age 3 port is also quiet slow early age 3 and 2 falcs will hold the fb quiet easily and by adding a second TC for russia port can't outboom anymore and russia has better units upgrades and much better map control from there, indeed in very late game port should win because 18 range goons and heavies are very strong vs russia but feels impossible to get to that point for me. Maybe a mameluk timing can be the key i don't know need advices of pros players i am very interested for the answers also
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Germany Joe
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Re: How to deny Map control as porto vs russia?

Post by Joe »

AndiAOE wrote: ā†‘
16 Feb 2022, 15:36
I honestly dont know how to play vs russia as porto on land maps. It seems like there is almost no win condition for me, all my units are less cost efficient, my eco is equal for the most part, i dont have power shipments in age 2 (like 5 cosack) which secure early game. I dont think there is a way for me to deny the first blockhouse going up and i also dont think i can ever push the blockhouse for the beforementioned reasons. Which leaves me to compete for the sides and to raid?
The only saving grace is super late game, where port on paper is more powerful. But ye you will never reach it, where you are on a somewhat equal position
I know i lost this particular game once i lost my 10 huss vs 12 cossack or something only killing 2. should i try to outmass cav or what is the grand plan here?
menu -> resign (if you are not at least 10 pr higher then russia player)
No Flag helln00
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Re: How to deny Map control as porto vs russia?

Post by helln00 »

revolt cheese into brazil?
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Re: How to deny Map control as porto vs russia?

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Post by Hazza54321 »

id probably cav semi (rely on tc and mm to kill musks) , try and get up and get a sizeable goon mass going, if hes flooding ur tcs with infantry id send cm. Id put your 2nd tc somewhat close to the 1st but securing more hunts.
First shipment should either be atp or pen + 7 sheep for that food boost early - mid fort.
2nd shipment should be 700g for cav batch (yes even if atp, 2nd tc is enough pop space, use 400w for stable and stagecoach, put tps on food initially to get a better cav batch)
3rd shipment is 700w for (market if youve sent atp) rax houses steel traps placermines
4th shipment varies but usually coin too to age but it might have to be 700f or cm depending on whats coming your way
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China fei123456
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Re: How to deny Map control as porto vs russia?

Post by fei123456 »

I thought it should be a favorable match up for Port? Russia can't prevent Port from going fortress, and your fortress unit combo wipe out his colonial bugs.
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Germany AndiAOE
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Re: How to deny Map control as porto vs russia?

Post by AndiAOE »

Hazza54321 wrote: ā†‘
16 Feb 2022, 17:39
id probably cav semi (rely on tc and mm to kill musks) , try and get up and get a sizeable goon mass going, if hes flooding ur tcs with infantry id send cm. Id put your 2nd tc somewhat close to the 1st but securing more hunts.
First shipment should either be atp or pen + 7 sheep for that food boost early - mid fort.
2nd shipment should be 700g for cav batch (yes even if atp, 2nd tc is enough pop space, use 400w for stable and stagecoach, put tps on food initially to get a better cav batch)
3rd shipment is 700w for (market if youve sent atp) rax houses steel traps placermines
4th shipment varies but usually coin too to age but it might have to be 700f or cm depending on whats coming your way
Should i aim for 5 or 10 huss before aging up? And use the huss to raid right?
And with the goon mass i go raid and take blockhouse shots if needed? Or what is the grand plan with the goons? if he just go inf mass + falc in age 3 sounds like i just die?
Thanks for the insights
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Re: How to deny Map control as porto vs russia?

Post by Senor_Boe »

I think 10 10 with atp and a bow pike semi ff is good in this kind of maps , Get 2nd tc in a strategic place ( where you can protect your tps / hunts ) . Walls can also help. I think once you make it to age 3 without taking any bad trades you should win with mameluke goons.
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Re: How to deny Map control as porto vs russia?

Post by Le Hussard sur le toit »

@Hazza54321 Can you really use ATP against Russia ? They can just take the stage coach can't they ?
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Re: How to deny Map control as porto vs russia?

Post by Hazza54321 »

Le Hussard sur le toit wrote: ā†‘
16 Feb 2022, 22:00
@Hazza54321 Can you really use ATP against Russia ? They can just take the stage coach can't they ?
it buys time for you to age and you can take back in fortress, kinda depends on the route. colorado id stage for example
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Re: How to deny Map control as porto vs russia?

Post by evilcheadar »

Thinking you can deny port map control is like thinking you can deny reality
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Re: How to deny Map control as porto vs russia?

Post by Hawk_Girl »

is pen always better than saving shipment for crates?
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Re: How to deny Map control as porto vs russia?

Post by andrewgs »

the sheep wi'll fatten at ~7:45 and give 2.1k food, which is like 1k food in terms of villager seconds (as you'd gather 1k food in that time, if you've got the hunts). So crates better if you're doing a timing before then.

the graphs I did here viewtopic.php?f=983&t=22329&p=517904#p517904 are worth a look.

I wonder if it is better to eat livestock on map to age sooner than to save them and fatten them on a pen, since aging earlier for port is twice as good as for other civs.

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