4 Settler card for Dutch and Ottomans

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India _DB_
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4 Settler card for Dutch and Ottomans

Post by _DB_ »

I've saw many good players don't keep it, but some do.
Is it worth it to have 4 settler card in your deck as dutch and otto?
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Netherlands momuuu
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4 Settler card for Dutch and Ottomans

Post by momuuu »

For otto I dont know. For Dutch I suppose its a wild card that you could have in your deck. Many other age 2 options aren't the greatest either, and it's still a decent card if you're stuck in colonial. Though maybe other cards are better in those scenarios.
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4 Settler card for Dutch and Ottomans

Post by yemshi »

You usally don't want to stay in 2nd as Dutch anyway' just send the bank wagon.
It's this fucking expensive 700res building and most importantly: You gather always, often times there may be army in your base the time you aged up and it makes your mines last longer.
Otto: Maybe
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4 Settler card for Dutch and Ottomans

Post by deleted_user0 »

For otto not really because of the pop limit. They want to win on military so generally crates to age or mass or unit shipments or ups is better. If its water its better to do schooners, also 4vil takes too valuable a slot. For dutch idk, maybe in some colo based play
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4 Settler card for Dutch and Ottomans

Post by momuuu »

yemshi wrote:You usally don''t want to stay in 2nd as Dutch anyway' just send the bank wagon.
It''s this fucking expensive 700res building and most importantly: You gather always, often times there may be army in your base the time you aged up and it makes your mines last longer.
Otto: Maybe
Some match ups age 2 is viable/good. It''s definitely not a card that should be included in any opening, but I think its a good 4-7th colonial card.
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4 Settler card for Dutch and Ottomans

Post by zoom »

It's a lot better for Ottomans than for Dutch but I wouldn't use it with either civilization.
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4 Settler card for Dutch and Ottomans

Post by blackstarop »

U dont need 4 vills for otto only crates army and abus upgrades.
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4 Settler card for Dutch and Ottomans

Post by Marco1698 »

I'm sure 4v card is so bad.. unless u are using brits and maybe for it doesn't work too :p
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4 Settler card for Dutch and Ottomans

Post by benj89 »

don't need it for dutch neither unless mirror or team, and still I wouldn't use it
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4 Settler card for Dutch and Ottomans

Post by momuuu »

benj89 wrote:don''t need it for dutch neither unless mirror or team, and still I wouldn''t use it
What cards would you prefer to send over it in a game where you are stuck in colonial then?

I was looking at the cards, and couldn''t really find stuff I''d like to have in my deck over it. It''s situationally good, but so are many other cards in your deck (including many of the lategame cards). It''s still 4 vills, which is decent I suppose.
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4 Settler card for Dutch and Ottomans

Post by benj89 »

if you are stuck colonial in team why not
but if you are stuck colonial 1v1 you lose because skirm pike or even skirm pike huss just lose to anything when there is mass involved (I generalize and don't know much abt tad civ, so only speaking abt nilla ones). I'd rather send skirm cards and wall bit to def transition to 3rd than 4v
still speaking abt nilla civ, I wouldn't stay colo after 9min or so if no mirror, unless it's those game where there is constant pressure/I constant def and there is no mass involved (and still long run unless you got some really efficient trade with skirms - which won't happen vs good player - u end up losing)
for ex when a german tower u and constant press it's fine to stay colo for a bit, but if he stop constant press and comes with a mass you most likely lose that's when u have to age.
+ there is the fact that it takes one precious spot if the deck.. to each card it's time, early there are few cards you must send or have (CM included especially to help the colo to 3rd transition vs press), then there is 700f which can save you often, then there are those middle game skirm cards (vs xb pike let's say), they are useful at a certain time when u got a decent amount of skirm, and at this point 4v will be less good. Just my opinion, but I played decent amount of dutch game and lost enough game to come to this conclusion. what do you think abt staying colo?
oh and for the card, definitely replace it to skirm cards or an age3 shipment. I find some card very useful as dutch such as swiss/hackapell (especially swiss) for example, or those 8 and 7 skirl ship which are essential too, skirm/cav up, 2HC are primordial also, church card same, 1000f or even 1000g can lead to interesting strat, 1000w kinda needed to (even tho I wouldn't really use it, but considering in tad strat seems to involve more 1 bank wagon than 600w, it make sense to use it) . I mean I don't really see a spot for 4v here :p
all this wasn't clear, but to lazy to rewrite :D
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4 Settler card for Dutch and Ottomans

Post by momuuu »

benj89 wrote:if you are stuck colonial in team why not
but if you are stuck colonial 1v1 you lose because skirm pike or even skirm pike huss just lose to anything when there is mass involved (I generalize and don''t know much abt tad civ, so only speaking abt nilla ones). I''d rather send skirm cards and wall bit to def transition to 3rd than 4v
still speaking abt nilla civ, I wouldn''t stay colo after 9min or so if no mirror, unless it''s those game where there is constant pressure/I constant def and there is no mass involved (and still long run unless you got some really efficient trade with skirms - which won''t happen vs good player - u end up losing)
for ex when a german tower u and constant press it''s fine to stay colo for a bit, but if he stop constant press and comes with a mass you most likely lose that''s when u have to age.
+ there is the fact that it takes one precious spot if the deck.. to each card it''s time, early there are few cards you must send or have (CM included especially to help the colo to 3rd transition vs press), then there is 700f which can save you often, then there are those middle game skirm cards (vs xb pike let''s say), they are useful at a certain time when u got a decent amount of skirm, and at this point 4v will be less good. Just my opinion, but I played decent amount of dutch game and lost enough game to come to this conclusion. what do you think abt staying colo?
oh and for the card, definitely replace it to skirm cards or an age3 shipment. I find some card very useful as dutch such as swiss/hackapell (especially swiss) for example, or those 8 and 7 skirl ship which are essential too, skirm/cav up, 2HC are primordial also, church card same, 1000f or even 1000g can lead to interesting strat, 1000w kinda needed to (even tho I wouldn''t really use it, but considering in tad strat seems to involve more 1 bank wagon than 600w, it make sense to use it) . I mean I don''t really see a spot for 4v here :p
all this wasn''t clear, but to lazy to rewrite :D
Well for nilla I probably agree, but for TAD you have so many card spots you can affort to have cards in your deck that are mostly useless. And I agree about Dutch colonial, I would replace it with a fortress card but I already have my fortress slots filled.

To me it''s 4 vills vs another colonial card or maybe an age 1/4 card. It''s between colonial militia, bank of amsterdam/rotterdam, tullip speculation and some age 2 cards like 3 huss, advanced arsenal, 700f and 700g, and maybe even the 2 factories. I think 4 vills is about similair in power level to those cards.

I really never feel the need to send any of those cards though.. As Dutch you probably want to finish the game before industrial as much as you don''t want to play colonial, so all cards are pretty situational. Maybe in 1% of the games the 4 vills are useful, but I think that''s more than the amount of games where I really get to send all the lategame cards.

Also, I kinda like Colonial Dutch vs Japan, and if your hunts are really bad colonial is a better option than a yolo semi-ff.
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4 Settler card for Dutch and Ottomans

Post by cowhax »

4vills probably better on maps with trade routes. 700 food/wood/coin are probably best after the bank shipment (though it's actually at equal value as the crate shipments). I'd say 4vills in place of crates/bank shipments if it's a high hunt map, you're going for tier 2 market upgrades, and/or the map has gold mines. 4vill is also a more effective shipment for FF than bank.
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4 Settler card for Dutch and Ottomans

Post by benj89 »

#cowhax, I kinda explained why on another thread bank>market, and it just doesn't fit to the civ/ur age3 plans in general to do what you said. so I'd consider everything you say wrong here, but won't bother re explain
@jerom, in 1v1 yeah i'd put one of the bank extra ship age1 why not, I wouldn't use tullip since clearly you would use it less than fact which you won't use often in the first place. and actually I find industrial a very nice option for dutch when they can't win fortress for some reason and need a decisive move (like when the guy is transitioning to planta but a push is to risky, or u just want surprise): good skirm mass+ musk/HC op (and I really like some kind of semi FI in mirror).
I'd put factories as a safety cuz clearly if for some reason the game goes indus and you don't have them it's over.
imo 700g is optional, never felt the need to use it, would consider it more for teams than 1v1, 3huss always nice to have, and mixed abt AA, in team for sure but for 1v1.. hm I'd only consider it for russians. I mean ars already give you two crucial up you really need: range cav attack + anti musk for skirm, and since I wouldn't consider staying colo in the first place..
I guess you can find a spot for those 4v, but it's just in general I wouldn't send them unless I lost many vills to a rush or smtg, why not after all, it's not a bad card, I just don't consider it useful/decisive enough to find a slot in the age2 options
haven't played much vs jap, and I think wickedcossack said an interesting strat vs them, as for me I'd semi skirm/pike them, even tho you risk the counter push when u reach age3. I don't think it's good to stay colo and add huss even vs them, but again haven't played much so if u manage to apply a good constant press why not
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4 Settler card for Dutch and Ottomans

Post by momuuu »

I must say in my decks it's normally in there, as one of those cards I never send anyways. If you stay colonial, something like bnk wagon 700w 600w 4 vills could be a pretty good build though. My point is that I guess most cards are super useless anyways, so maybe 4 vills is decent in some scenarios.

It's so hard to say.. Id just replace it with a bunch more fortress age shipments, but that's impossible :(
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4 Settler card for Dutch and Ottomans

Post by fei123456 »

so what about sioux?

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