Israel Adne
Musketeer
Posts: 79
Location: Republiek der Zeven Verenigde Nederlanden
Game: AoE Online

12 Feb 2018, 21:28

Aah nice solution, thank you @Goodspeed!
No Flag Peshmerga12
Musketeer
Posts: 72

12 Feb 2018, 22:07

We just have to wait and see :))
No Flag andypierce
Crossbow
Posts: 27
Game: AoE Online

13 Feb 2018, 03:48

UPDATE: I have gone through the betting records very carefully and believe that I have determined that after the Carnage/GUA game began, six players changed their bets to favor Carnage (who won 3-0). Those players are eery, wout, adne, striker, peshmerga, and zerton.

liability determined, we now move to the penalty phase of this inquiry.

simply undoing the illegal bets creates no disincentive to cheat whatsoever. there must be a penalty. I am inclined to take all money wagered on this match by those cheaters and assign that money to GUA winning, so that they will lose it all. I will also resign from the competition as a matter of course. In hindsight, I shouldnt have entered anyway, but now I am unable to win, since I am ruling on those who I am competing against.

To allow time to hear any motions for reconsideration, I will wait a few hours or so before executing the punishments.
No Flag Peshmerga12
Musketeer
Posts: 72

13 Feb 2018, 06:38

I have explained my situation before but because i cannot prove it, your decition is okay from my view. You can just changed it to the last update before 15GMT and the players can be more attentive to not re do the mistake. (Can also just cancel that match). In the end you are the person who decides and I fully respect if your going to do so. :))
Austria UoPoko
Crossbow
Posts: 20
Game: AoE Online

13 Feb 2018, 11:07

I did put in my bets Thursday around 11pm GMT I think. Haven't looked in since then and was surprised how the odds had changed. The reason I put the 450 on Carnege winning 3:0 was the odds, something like 10.84 at the time I put my points in. Was very surprised when I saw the current odd of 1.70 for a 3:0 ...

As most already had put their points in, I did not expect such a drastic change, cause the game was going to happen on Friday so it should be closed soon. I for sure had the most points on the 3:0 when I put mine in. I guess it was @Peshmerga12 who was second with 200 or 250, not sure about that. And there were a lot of bets on other results, the reason I chose 3:0 over 3:1 was that 3:1 had an odd of under 2 I think. Now it is at 6.24 ...

@andypierce : Yes, I think putting their points on GUA winning is a good thing, but maybe you can check before that the odds for those that played by the rules don't change in a way that they are the real losers. Because if the odds for a 3:0 now fall under 10, I guess I can see myself as collateral damage.
No Flag chronojj
Musketeer
Posts: 82

13 Feb 2018, 13:12

just remove them completely. they cheated.
remove gua from tourney too, he cheated me by faking like he was good
No Flag Peshmerga12
Musketeer
Posts: 72

13 Feb 2018, 15:42

UoPoko wrote:I did put in my bets Thursday around 11pm GMT I think. Haven't looked in since then and was surprised how the odds had changed. The reason I put the 450 on Carnege winning 3:0 was the odds, something like 10.84 at the time I put my points in. Was very surprised when I saw the current odd of 1.70 for a 3:0 ...

As most already had put their points in, I did not expect such a drastic change, cause the game was going to happen on Friday so it should be closed soon. I for sure had the most points on the 3:0 when I put mine in. I guess it was @Peshmerga12 who was second with 200 or 250, not sure about that. And there were a lot of bets on other results, the reason I chose 3:0 over 3:1 was that 3:1 had an odd of under 2 I think. Now it is at 6.24 ...

@andypierce : Yes, I think putting their points on GUA winning is a good thing, but maybe you can check before that the odds for those that played by the rules don't change in a way that they are the real losers. Because if the odds for a 3:0 now fall under 10, I guess I can see myself as collateral damage.


Yes therefore i say that did not cheat @andypierce. As uopoko says. But in the end it is andy who is in charge and i hope you understand
User avatar
Netherlands Wout
Skirmisher
Posts: 165
ESO: Wout
Game: AoE Online

13 Feb 2018, 16:24

It was always stated that any bets placed after the match already started would simply be disregarded, in the case of bets not being closed. Where in the betting rules does it say anything else about 'cheating' like this? All of us just simply thought they would be disregarded.
No Flag Peshmerga12
Musketeer
Posts: 72

13 Feb 2018, 16:30

Wout wrote:It was always stated that any bets placed after the match already started would simply be disregarded, in the case of bets not being closed. Where in the betting rules does it say anything else about 'cheating' like this? All of us just simply thought they would be disregarded.


Ye, that is why i hope he just takes the last update before 15GMT as a count instead of kick player from the betting, I did not check the match (when it was going to start) that is why i hope Andy could give us another try.
Germany Carnage
AoE:O Team
Posts: 105
Game: AoE Online

13 Feb 2018, 17:08

if it was up to my interpretation, that rule is for people betting late, like when its 1-0 or something, not for people blatantly betting after the whole fucking series is over. up to andy really, hes in charge.
No Flag Peshmerga12
Musketeer
Posts: 72

13 Feb 2018, 18:15

Carnage wrote:if it was up to my interpretation, that rule is for people betting late, like when its 1-0 or something, not for people blatantly betting after the whole fucking series is over. up to andy really, hes in charge.


I never changed my bets to 3-0 for you, i already had 3-0 on you with a certain amout of point @UoPoko can verify that :)). There was Eery and some other betters that totalt changed there bets to 3-0 for you after the match
Germany Carnage
AoE:O Team
Posts: 105
Game: AoE Online

13 Feb 2018, 19:53

i was just making a general statement.
No Flag Peshmerga12
Musketeer
Posts: 72

13 Feb 2018, 20:09

Carnage wrote:i was just making a general statement.


I know, i just wanted to inform you about mine :))
User avatar
Netherlands Wout
Skirmisher
Posts: 165
ESO: Wout
Game: AoE Online

13 Feb 2018, 20:45

agree with @Peshmerga12
No Flag andypierce
Crossbow
Posts: 27
Game: AoE Online

14 Feb 2018, 01:02

I had a change of heart and reverted the bets to how they looked prior to the Carnage match. If anyone else cheats, I will gut them like a fish. This is your warning.

Bets are open.

Image
No Flag Peshmerga12
Musketeer
Posts: 72

14 Feb 2018, 06:16

andypierce wrote:I had a change of heart and reverted the bets to how they looked prior to the Carnage match. If anyone else cheats, I will gut them like a fish. This is your warning.

Bets are open.

Image


Thx Andy, plz see this like a mistske from our side and not a thing to creat more work for you :))
Austria UoPoko
Crossbow
Posts: 20
Game: AoE Online

14 Feb 2018, 13:03

Peshmerga12 wrote:Sry but i will get to difficult to see who cheats and not. Clic on file and look up the history and check when the bets was changed. (Before 15GMT) i know ppl changed it cuz i had atleast 10x odds now it is below 2x.

Peshmerga12 wrote:@andypierce Plz check the bets, everyone changed thier bets after the match with GUA to 3-0 carranage to get maximum payout, (unfortunately i also changed, but that was because i though the match wasen't played yet). So plz andy restore the changes before 15GMT and give the right payouts :)).

andypierce wrote:UPDATE: ... Those players are eery, wout, adne, striker, peshmerga, and zerton. ...

Andy, I know it is a lot of work, but can you please check the records once again? According to the statements listed above, @Peshmerga12 changed his bets after the game has started/been played and he still saw the odds over 10 for a 3:0 by cG_Carnage. I know I had the highest amount on that result when I put my points in and the odds were slightly over 10 at that time. When I look at the sheet now, I see wout has betted 1000 on the exact result (and nothing else), can you please recheck this happend before the game was played?

Thanks for taking the time.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

@andypierce Match3: cG_Eary vs iamsoldier - this match isn't happening, this was from the quarter finals.

Match5 has already been played, hope we wont see the same thing we saw last round. Although I guess nobody will bet on a wrong result so the odds will stay at 1.00.

also: @ZertoN & @RecoN might have put a little to many points in considering their current balance.
Germany Carnage
AoE:O Team
Posts: 105
Game: AoE Online

14 Feb 2018, 13:19

yes betting is screwed atm.
No Flag Peshmerga12
Musketeer
Posts: 72

14 Feb 2018, 14:41

@Wout It seems that you are using some sort of a CPU better that changes the bets as other players bets, is that legal @andypierce ?. The bets wout does is auto changed as other ppl places there bets
No Flag chronojj
Musketeer
Posts: 82

14 Feb 2018, 15:02

Wout wrote:It was always stated that any bets placed after the match already started would simply be disregarded, in the case of bets not being closed. Where in the betting rules does it say anything else about 'cheating' like this? All of us just simply thought they would be disregarded.


of course it's cheating to intentionally put bets in/change bets after a match has been played. why would you need a rule to say that?
"don't cheat, because it's cheating to cheat." "oh ok, I understand now, didn't realize I couldn't cheat before."
:ugly:

now why is there even a rule that says late bets just get disregarded. That's dumb - it just encourages people to cheat, because they either a) get caught and nothing happens or b) don't get caught and cheat the system. I'm sure the intent of the forgiveness was for people who accidentally bet after (but of course they'll always say that), then sure, just remove it, but obviously that's not what happened here. how can a betting competition be a betting competition if people change their bets after the matches? obviously it's no longer betting at that point.. well I guess it is in a different way, you're just betting to see if you get caught or not.

can we add a new category? I want to bet whether or not people will try to cheat again. I'll say yes, but it's gonna be really bad odds for yes... 1-1 at best. but at least then I'd get a bet right.
:uglylol:
Austria UoPoko
Crossbow
Posts: 20
Game: AoE Online

14 Feb 2018, 15:08

@Peshmerga12 you are right, I just tried it in match2. I put in 1000 on 3-1 and suddenly wouts numbers change. I deleted the 1000 and they go back.

No matter if it is listed as legal or not, that is a new low. I guess @andypierce did not expect someone doing this but it is in no way good sportmanship.

@chronojj : looks like you won that one already ...
User avatar
Netherlands Wout
Skirmisher
Posts: 165
ESO: Wout
Game: AoE Online

14 Feb 2018, 15:23

@UoPoko
viewtopic.php?f=399&t=12656&p=270792#p270792
Check this. I started trying some basic google sheet functions in this aoe3 tourney. It's allowed!
No Flag Peshmerga12
Musketeer
Posts: 72

14 Feb 2018, 16:45

Wout wrote:@UoPoko
viewtopic.php?f=399&t=12656&p=270792#p270792
Check this. I started trying some basic google sheet functions in this aoe3 tourney. It's allowed!


The problem is though that sometimes it gets over 1000 points in one results which is not allowed. And since it is a formula it won't reject it
User avatar
Netherlands Wout
Skirmisher
Posts: 165
ESO: Wout
Game: AoE Online

14 Feb 2018, 17:09

I'm pretty sure it will reject that. Your bets wont count if you have over 1000 betted. I just use a formula so that it can't go over 1000.
No Flag Peshmerga12
Musketeer
Posts: 72

14 Feb 2018, 17:23

Wout wrote:I'm pretty sure it will reject that. Your bets wont count if you have over 1000 betted. I just use a formula so that it can't go over 1000.


No it won't . I have seen go to 1050 something many times :/. The formula is made to adjust to other bets not to stop at 1000 points

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