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Italy Garja
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12 Feb 2018, 18:27

India can age at 4.30 with 4 dudes on wonder. Any 5min or sub agra age up is totally fine (it's like having a rax up at 5 min which is the same of let's say French).
Starving is one way for Russia to win but not very realistic on EP and on Florida (back mine is hard to contest).
In late colo India has way better units, not because of ups or stats (tho desert terror card can be one of best ups in the game) but mostly because India just has both skirm and goon type units in colo meaning they can go full skirms (making musks basically useless) and then not die to good cav because of zambs. If India didn't have zambs then it would probably be even with gurka/sepoy/sowar vs strel/musk/coss.
In mid-late fortress however Russia combo is actually better. Mahout and urumi are just power spikes that can win you the game if you force the battle at that point. If Russia player is controlling the game (e.g. if India tries a follow up) generally Russia can stabilize enough to send 1 or 2 ups and delay the main fight as long as possible, making any unit shipment way less effective.
Germany richard
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12 Feb 2018, 23:14

MUoftheweek[diarouga] wrote:"India ages early now (to age II)" Really? Why would they?

Because their houses cost less, hence they have to chop less wood, hence can gather the food required for the age up quicker.

MUoftheweek[diarouga] wrote:You can definitely damage them with a 5/4 coss build.

In my opinion, you (russia) damage yourself more than india, if you do that.

MUoftheweek[diarouga] wrote:"Starvin india is not possible as they dont use food for vill production" Yea they don't need a lot of food, they do need some gold though.

Can russia win by starving india, in your opinion?

MUoftheweek[diarouga] wrote:they [india] have to contest the map, else the Russian player can just take the TP line on some maps and be ahead in eco.

This thread is only about India versus Russia on Florida. Trying to apply facts about maps where the Russian player can just take the TP line does not get us ahead.
Great Britain WickedCossack
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12 Feb 2018, 23:38

On a lot of the RE maps just playing contain as russia with double BH does really well. I think you can still do an early push with 5coss /10 strelets to see if you can snipe 1 or 2 vils and/or force the india to make more units than they need if they can't judge the situation well. Then ship 700w after adding a 2nd TP if TP map and 2nd BH. Just don't push in much after that, I guess you can still poke a little but mostly just camp the hunts and the 2nd mine if it's poorly placed. I always enjoyed playing the MU equally from both sides on RE.

On 90% of EP maps the india will probably have too many resources in base though it depends on the situation, Florida definitely has enough though you can still double TP.

Russia might have to do a semi water build on EP Florida to make it even again, I don't think going land would cut it. FB and still 5/10 rush, get 1st tp with the age up wood, 700w next and add 2 docks and another tp then 600w and just add 14 boats and no more. Then go full land again. Don't send schooners btw, still trickle in age 1, 70w boats are fine.

India should just stay in base and play a reactionary game, so only push out if you scout something like stagecoach/water/ff, otherwise just camp.
No Flag greatscythe11
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13 Feb 2018, 04:03

Is it viable for russia to start with crates, like 700w 700c? Crates are pretty efficient and they help shipment progression as does a tp. How about fencing school next? Russian strength seems to be in big numbers and multiple outlets-bh and stable-and short train times should help maintain the numbers. By late colonial Russian eco becomes quite strong. Boyars can be used as compensatory measure for desert terror and camel attack. It's late colonial push as people are saying where the Russian strength is. Cossack shipments can also be used to reinforce the push. Strelets are weak but they are cheap and have a speed of 4.5 vs 4 of a gurkha. They are also very efficient tankers in a high ranged fire environment.
Greece tedere12
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13 Feb 2018, 04:27

This just allows india to be more boomy and eventually huete you more. You need to push early to stop india from going greedy and maybe force them to invest too many res on units
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No Flag umeu
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13 Feb 2018, 05:45

tbh i dont think 5 coss 10 strel is even that great :/ agra 2 eles 2 sepoy and 3 huss + tc fire should deal with it np. just gotta open trickle gfa 300xport ^^
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United States of America TheInvincibleJannisary
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13 Feb 2018, 05:51

umeu wrote:tbh i dont think 5 coss 10 strel is even that great :/ agra 2 eles 2 sepoy and 3 huss + tc fire should deal with it np. just gotta open trickle gfa 300xport ^^

haha this is really true. Trying to all in rush doesn't even work that well anymore. The EP hunts nerfed Russia so hard indirectly because of the improved hunts. Russia just can't break India can they?
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Netherlands momuuu
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13 Feb 2018, 15:39

richard wrote:
MUoftheweek[diarouga] wrote:"India ages early now (to age II)" Really? Why would they?

Because their houses cost less, hence they have to chop less wood, hence can gather the food required for the age up quicker.

The effect of that is approximately 4-5 seconds.

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United States of America IntrepidExplorer
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13 Feb 2018, 18:35

Mitoe wrote:
Hazza54321 wrote:standard 10 strel 5 coss rush to mind game them into age 2 play into semi ff i guess into early 2 falcs but ofc thats relying on a mistake from india

But... 5 4 13 2 :(


What is the 2 lol
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Germany richard
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13 Feb 2018, 19:45

momuuu wrote:
richard wrote:
MUoftheweek[diarouga] wrote:"India ages early now (to age II)" Really? Why would they?

Because their houses cost less, hence they have to chop less wood, hence can gather the food required for the age up quicker.

The effect of that is approximately 4-5 seconds.

Ok, thanks, i didnt test that before.

In addition to these seconds they age earlier than usual here because of the free market in the beginning, as we are on EP Florida. Did you check indias age up time? As we all know, russia cant age before 4:20, so each second that india gets, helps them to set up better for early russian agression, as the difference between 4:20 and indias age up time gets smaller.
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France Kaiserklein
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13 Feb 2018, 19:49

IntrepidExplorer wrote:
Mitoe wrote:
Hazza54321 wrote:standard 10 strel 5 coss rush to mind game them into age 2 play into semi ff i guess into early 2 falcs but ofc thats relying on a mistake from india

But... 5 4 13 2 :(


What is the 2 lol

It's the 2 in hazza54321
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Brazil lemmings121
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13 Feb 2018, 20:32

richard wrote:
momuuu wrote:
Show hidden quotes

The effect of that is approximately 4-5 seconds.

Ok, thanks, i didnt test that before.

In addition to these seconds they age earlier than usual here because of the free market in the beginning, as we are on EP Florida. Did you check indias age up time? As we all know, russia cant age before 4:20, so each second that india gets, helps them to set up better for early russian agression, as the difference between 4:20 and indias age up time gets smaller.


India has probably the slowest ageup ingame, unless you sacrifice eco to do some random 6vills on wonder ageup. And market start doest really speed up india, doing the 50/50/50 up will even slow you down (while giving better eco ofc..)
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Italy Garja
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13 Feb 2018, 20:50

India can always use 4 (or even more) vills for the wonder. And wirh agra they already save 30 secs or so in having a functional production facility.
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Tuvalu gibson
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13 Feb 2018, 20:57

lemmings121 wrote:
richard wrote:
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Ok, thanks, i didnt test that before.

In addition to these seconds they age earlier than usual here because of the free market in the beginning, as we are on EP Florida. Did you check indias age up time? As we all know, russia cant age before 4:20, so each second that india gets, helps them to set up better for early russian agression, as the difference between 4:20 and indias age up time gets smaller.


India has probably the slowest ageup ingame, unless you sacrifice eco to do some random 6vills on wonder ageup. And market start doest really speed up india, doing the 50/50/50 up will even slow you down (while giving better eco ofc..)
doesn't really slow you down on Florida since you have a free market and usually can get the coin from treasures.
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Italy Garja
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13 Feb 2018, 22:00

Btw the 50/50/50 up not only is rather expensive but also researches slow. Considering you dont really gather wood and coin after its completition it isnt worth researching in age 1.
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Canada Mitoe
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13 Feb 2018, 22:20

IntrepidExplorer wrote:
Mitoe wrote:
Hazza54321 wrote:standard 10 strel 5 coss rush to mind game them into age 2 play into semi ff i guess into early 2 falcs but ofc thats relying on a mistake from india

But... 5 4 13 2 :(


What is the 2 lol

2 Surgeons
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Sweden Gendarme
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13 Feb 2018, 22:21

Infinite value
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France Kaiserklein
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13 Feb 2018, 22:50

Yeah you can get the food up but thats all. With a gold treasure it's good, not really as good as hunts dogs, but better than the 50/50/50 thing
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Great Britain Hazza54321
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13 Feb 2018, 23:01

Mitoe wrote:
IntrepidExplorer wrote:
Show hidden quotes


What is the 2 lol

2 Surgeons

dude you got it wrong
hazza 5 4 13 2 1
are the seconds counting down for your opponent to resign
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Canada Mitoe
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13 Feb 2018, 23:47

But you're Hazza54321 not Hazza 541321 :huh:
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Finland somppukunkku
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13 Feb 2018, 23:50

Mitoe wrote:But you're Hazza54321 not Hazza 541321 :huh:

541321 is the number of girls harry bangs every club night
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Germany richard
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14 Feb 2018, 14:09

lemmings121 wrote:
richard wrote:
Show hidden quotes

Ok, thanks, i didnt test that before.

In addition to these seconds they age earlier than usual here because of the free market in the beginning, as we are on EP Florida. Did you check indias age up time? As we all know, russia cant age before 4:20, so each second that india gets, helps them to set up better for early russian agression, as the difference between 4:20 and indias age up time gets smaller.


India has probably the slowest ageup ingame, unless you sacrifice eco to do some random 6vills on wonder ageup. And market start doest really speed up india, doing the 50/50/50 up will even slow you down (while giving better eco ofc..)

It would be nice if you as an india player could post a concrete example of an age up time you achieved on EP 4.2, doing the age1 5% Food Upgrade in market with a 300wood/100food/100coin start, using 1 or 4 vills on wonder.

In my opinion, phrases like "India has probably the slowest ageup ingame, ..." dont help much in a thread which is about a concrete matchup on a concrete map.
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Italy Garja
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14 Feb 2018, 14:43

India doesnt age too slow to the point their are in danger of being rushed. In fact they can hold any rush. The slowness is related to the overall build because of later first colo card, etc.
With 4v on wonder they never age up slower than 4.50 in any case.

Anyway, I dont think this MU is too bad actually, at least up to the current meta devolepment. There are plenty of Russia builds "to discover" (more than India currently), especially on this specific map.
One possible build is, for example, 17v age up with 2 TPs+BH in transition with eco theory as 2nd card. The economy is huge and shipments are back to back. Build is also super safe because BH is up by 5 min. Can easily research steel traps and then start producing strelets.
From there Russia can do w/e. First card can be 700w so you can add stable, houses, etc. Can decide to age up or stay colonial. Can also have suvorov card in the deck just as a possible threat of a big timing.
This build is actually doable on any map with any start (works better with 200w start of course) but is especially good on this map due to the free market. In general, Russia doesn't mind playing colonial past the 10 min mark. With such eco and everything in place to spam units Russia shouldn't be too scared about semis. Can also try to trade units around 10 min mark when Russia gets a power spike (good time reference for a timing) and then, depending on the situation, either try to age up (with 600g if needed) or just stay colo and play from there. As said, eco is huge and you have good enough colo units to face pretty much any situation. Aging in this case would be just a way to further up your units with vet tech and cards. You're not going to send any unit card when you have 40-50 units on the field anyway.
In general passive eco builds with Russia have lot of potential on EP. Due to their aggressive nature, Russia is one of those civs that can't really be rushed (BH in base, good unit cards, mm, units pop in batches, etc.). Because they also have 400w, fast age up, steel traps and normal food crates it makes sense ot play them economically and looking for a possible age up.
Germany richard
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14 Feb 2018, 16:03

Garja wrote:One possible build is, for example, 17v age up with 2 TPs+BH in transition with eco theory as 2nd card. The economy is huge and shipments are back to back. Build is also super safe because BH is up by 5 min. Can easily research steel traps and then start producing strelets.
From there Russia can do w/e. First card can be 700w so you can add stable, houses, etc. Can decide to age up or stay colonial. Can also have suvorov card in the deck just as a possible threat of a big timing.
This build is actually doable on any map with any start (works better with 200w start of course) but is especially good on this map due to the free market. In general, Russia doesn't mind playing colonial past the 10 min mark. With such eco and everything in place to spam units Russia shouldn't be too scared about semis. Can also try to trade units around 10 min mark when Russia gets a power spike (good time reference for a timing) and then, depending on the situation, either try to age up (with 600g if needed) or just stay colo and play from there. As said, eco is huge and you have good enough colo units to face pretty much any situation. Aging in this case would be just a way to further up your units with vet tech and cards. You're not going to send any unit card when you have 40-50 units on the field anyway.

I tried one implementation of this idea. This is played on Captain level. It was the first time i did this build, so it is not executed optimally and should be optimized.

What i did:
- Card order: Distr-EcoTheory-700G-600G-Boyars
- 17 Vill age up with 400W
- Hunting Dogs plus Gang Saw in age I
- TP in transition
- BH in transition
- 2nd TP from 400W
- Steel Traps from 400W
- Stable from 400W (kind of -- it is more than 400W in total with the stable)
- ATTAAACK at 8:21 (finally...)
Attachments
[EP4-2 SP] KingRichardIIII[RU] vs Quishosanchez[IN] - ESOC Florida.age3yrec
India Vs. Russia on Florida
(454.96 KiB) Downloaded 60 times
Greece tedere12
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14 Feb 2018, 17:18

I prefer to do the 500f ageup and 5 4 13
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